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Sharpening hooks


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#1
carpingod150

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Just been reading some old mags (Carpology - go on, tell me it's awful :roll: ) and I was reading the article(s) from Jason Hayward regarding hook sharpening. He uses a Vallorbe needle file, in cut 4 to achieve a very, very sharp looking hook. There's a close up pic of the hooks he has sharpened compared to a normal hook, and it's astounding!

Posted Image

Do you think this is worth doing? I've just ordered a file myself, it seems like a huge edge to me :D

#2
salokcinnodrog

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Question for you, does it say which hooks he has sharpened?

A hookpoint has often been tempered and set so by sharpening an already tempered hook makes the point more brittle or damages it in other ways.

The reason that in most cases that the hook needs sharpening is that the hooks have been coated with Teflon or some other coating to protect the hook from corrosion. This coating "blunts" the hook slightly, just running a file along the edge of the hook removes it and re-sharpens the hook.

There is a problem with this in that some waters, especially silty waters the hookpoint can be blunted just by being in the water. It may or may not get snagged up but something in the water blunts the hook. That is what the hook coating is there to protect from.
Nick

#3
carpingod150

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I believe he sharpened a variety of hooks, both coated and un-coated.

He also said that, almost all of the time after every fish the hook needed to be changed. However, if you were fishing on a one fish a year water this would obviously be worth it, to hook the fish of a lifetime.

If he does not catch, and brings in the hook after a days fishing, he 'touches up' the hook, with the file to restore it to sharpness.

You say about the point being brittle, surely if the hook is sharper it will penetrate further, meaning that the point will have less pressure on it, due to the hook being in further.

#4
salokcinnodrog

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I believe he sharpened a variety of hooks, both coated and un-coated.

He also said that, almost all of the time after every fish the hook needed to be changed. However, if you were fishing on a one fish a year water this would obviously be worth it, to hook the fish of a lifetime.

If he does not catch, and brings in the hook after a days fishing, he 'touches up' the hook, with the file to restore it to sharpness.

You say about the point being brittle, surely if the hook is sharper it will penetrate further, meaning that the point will have less pressure on it, due to the hook being in further.


I'm not sure that we do need to change the hook every fish. I fished at Merrington Social and put a fresh rig on for that trip. New Hook new braid etc, and landed a good 20 on it. I didn't bother to change it for my next trip, and fished in a very weedy water and landed 4 more Carp to double figures on that same hook. The hook itself was an ESP pattern. The only reason I took that hook off was that I snagged up and frayed the braid.

At another water I didn't bother changing hooks and landed some 20 Carp on 1 hook over 2 trips.

I don't sharpen my hooks, I do check them for, sharpness, burrs and properly closed eyes though. To sharpen a hook and to check that you are not removing the point then you really need a Jewellers Eyeglass to magnify the point. Every time you sharpen or attempt to sharpen the hook you will remove metal. If there is less metal then you will be making it harder to hone the point to needle sharpness, as each time you will need to start the "stroke" from further up the hook.

No matter what, or how brittle the hook, if the rig is badly designed then the hook will not penetrate. If a point is brittle then it can be very easily broken off on a stone or snag in the water, and just by dropping a Lead as you get ready to cast, (you know that "oops the line slipped out of my fingers" as you reach back with the rod) and the hook hitting the ground, can be enough to take the point off a hook.
Nick

#5
seleb

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I read Jasons' articles with great interest , especially the hook sharpening ones.

I remember him saying that some hooks sharpened better than others with Drennan Conti's being the best.

I do sharpen my hooks now but only if i think it needs it. If I'm fishing a bottom bait and the hook is IMO sharp enough straight out of the packet then i won't bother touching it up. When i re- cast or have a take i will then check my hook points and re-sharpen them with an extremely fine diamond stone if need be.

If I'm fishing a pop up i tend to sharpen them as much as i can straight out of the packet . I do this because i feel with the hook suspended from the bottom the point has a much lesser chance of being turned over.

I wouldn't be confident to leave a sharpened hook out for days on end due to rust but for an overnighter i don't think it can hurt in the slightest.

#6
terryf59

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Isn't this the same article, where he says korda hooks were the hardest to sharpen? and were really sharp to beging with?

I do remember a mag saying something along them lines, not sure if it was carpology
The fishing was good; it was the catching that was bad.

#7
carpsman

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Question for you, does it say which hooks he has sharpened?

A hookpoint has often been tempered and set so by sharpening an already tempered hook makes the point more brittle or damages it in other ways.

The reason that in most cases that the hook needs sharpening is that the hooks have been coated with Teflon or some other coating to protect the hook from corrosion. This coating "blunts" the hook slightly, just running a file along the edge of the hook removes it and re-sharpens the hook.

There is a problem with this in that some waters, especially silty waters the hookpoint can be blunted just by being in the water. It may or may not get snagged up but something in the water blunts the hook. That is what the hook coating is there to protect from.


Where have you read this?? teflon coating was designed to give a non flash finish not to stop the hook from going blunt :?
excuse my spelling and grammer is appauling

#8
carpingod150

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Question for you, does it say which hooks he has sharpened?

A hookpoint has often been tempered and set so by sharpening an already tempered hook makes the point more brittle or damages it in other ways.

The reason that in most cases that the hook needs sharpening is that the hooks have been coated with Teflon or some other coating to protect the hook from corrosion. This coating "blunts" the hook slightly, just running a file along the edge of the hook removes it and re-sharpens the hook.

There is a problem with this in that some waters, especially silty waters the hookpoint can be blunted just by being in the water. It may or may not get snagged up but something in the water blunts the hook. That is what the hook coating is there to protect from.


Where have you read this?? teflon coating was designed to give a non flash finish not to stop the hook from going blunt :?


Or, perhaps it could be for both! :?: :idea: :wink:

#9
carpsman

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possibly !! :lol: :wink: :wink:
excuse my spelling and grammer is appauling

#10
salokcinnodrog

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How about a few reasons for a Teflon coating?

1) it prevents water getting to the base metal and stops it going rusty.

2) it allows a better penetration as it does not stick :shock: :wink: and slides in and penetrates better (in theory)

3) Non flash finish.

Combined with a non reflective, non-rust TeflonĀ® coating, this produces a hook with unrivalled durability and sharpness!


That quote is from the Fox Armopoint hooks, all the reasons in 1 quote, but if you don't believe me then this Patent from 1992 should cover it all!

Abstract Claims Description Full Text

BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

This invention relates generally to fishhooks and more specifically to a
fishhook having a coating of low-friction material.

There are countless artifices employed to catch fish using some form of a
fishhook. Many of the devices are directed to the luring of fish to strike
the fishhook. However, in order to successfully catch the fish, it must
not only strike the fishhook, but the fish must become caught on the
fishhook. Accordingly, many fishhooks have been designed to improve the
"set" of the hook in the mouth of the fish. These designs frequently
address the problem of positioning the fishhook in the fish's mouth, but
do not address the problem of quickly penetrating the flesh in the mouth
of the fish to securely hook the fish. Even if the fishhook is properly
oriented in the mouth, lack of a sufficiently deep penetration of the
fishhook into the flesh can result in the fish working itself free from
the hook, and also in undesirable tearing of the flesh in the mouth.

SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

Among the several objects of the present invention may be noted the
provision of a fishhook which quickly penetrates the flesh of the fish in
its mouth; the provision of such a hook which will break down
(disintegrate) when exposed to the elements over a period of time so as
not to present a hazard if the fishhook is lost; and the provision of such
a fishhook which is inexpensively manufactured.

Generally, a fishhook constructed according to the principles of the
present invention comprises a shank, and a curved butt portion extending
from one end of the shank. The shank, and curved butt portion are made of
a first material. A coating of a second material having a coefficient of
friction less than 0.3 substantially covers the curved butt portion.

Other objects and features will be in part apparent and in part pointed out
hereinafter.



DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF A PREFERRED EMBODIMENT

the fishhook of the present invention, indicated
generally at 10 includes a shank 12, and an eye 14 at one end of the shank
for securing the hook to fishing line. A curved butt portion 16 extends
from another end of the shank 12 opposite the eye 14 and terminates in a
point 18 at an end of the curved butt portion 16 opposite the shank. A
barb 20 pro ects laterally from the point 18 and curved butt portion 16.
It is to be understood that a fishhook may lack a barb and still fall
within the scope of the invention. Although in the preferred embodiment,
the eye 14 is integrally formed with the shank 12, the eye and shank may
be separate and still fall within the scope of the present invention. For
instance, some lures consist of a body designed to attract the fish. The
shank 12, butt portion 16, point 18 and barb 20 project from one portion
of the lure body while the eye 14 projects from another portion of the
body.

The shank 12, eye 14, curved butt portion 16, point 18 and barb 20 are
integrally formed and made of a first material. a
coating 22 of a second material having a coefficient of static friction
less than 0.3 substantially covers the first material. For purposes of the
this description, the coefficient of static friction is defined as the
ratio of the force required to move from a stationary position one surface
made of the second material over another surface made of the second
material to the total force pressing the two surfaces together. Further,
the coefficient of friction as used herein is that established when the
two surfaces are clean and at room temperature.

The first material may be steel or other metal commonly used in the
manufacture of fishhooks. In the preferred embodiment the second material
is polytetraflouroethylene, often identified by the trademark TEFLON owned
by E. I. duPont Nemours & Co., Inc., the orginator of the material. The
coefficient of static friction of TEFLON is 0.04 (Source: Handbook of
Chemistry and Physics (68th ed.), CRC Press, 1987: p. F-16). It is
believed that other fluorinated polymers such as fluorinated ethylene
propylene (FEP), perfluoroalkoxy resins (PFA), polyvinylidene fluoride
(PVDF), polychlorotrifluoroethylene (PCTFE),
ethylene-chlorotrifluoroethylene (ECTFE) may also be used for the coating.
It is believed that low friction non-fluoro polymer coatings such as
graphite may also be employed. TEFLON is the preferred coating because it
has the lowest coefficient of friction. The coating 22 is preferable of
uniform thickness and in the range of about 0.001 inches to about 0.0001
inches thick. A relatively thin coating reduces product cost. It is
believed that a coating having a thickness falling within the range
specified will last about a year under normal use.

The coating 22 is applied to the fishhook 10 starting at a point below the
eye 14 and covers the remaining portions of the fishhook. As coating is
applied to the point 18, it becomes somewhat rounded and loses some of its
sharpness. Therefore, the point 18 is resharpened after the coating 22 is
applied, which leaves the point free of the coating. The sharpening should
be carried out so that there is a smooth tapered transition from the tip
to the coated portion of the fishhook to avoid any blunt edges which might
inhibit a smooth penetration of the tip, barb and butt portion into the
flesh of the fish. In the fish's mouth, the sharp point 18 makes the
initial penetration of the flesh. As the fishhook 10 makes further
penetration, the coated barb 20 and butt portion 16 engage the flesh. The
coating, unlike the materials normally used to make fishhooks, offers
little frictional resistance to further entry of the fishhook into the
flesh. Therefore, the fishhook 10 may achieve a relatively quick and deep
penetration of the flesh to facilitate a quick and secure hook set. A more
shallow penetration of the flesh, such as might occur due to frictional
resistance of a fishhook made of steel, can result in the fish freeing
itself from the hook and/or in tearing of the flesh as the point is pulled
across a wall of the mouth.

The coating 22 is also resistant to rust, which increases the life of a
fishhook lying unused in a tackle box. However, because the eye 14 and the
point 18 are free of the coating, the fishhook 10 will eventually rust out
beginning at these points. The decomposition is accelerated when the
fishhook is exposed to the elements such as when submerged under water.
This feature is believed to prevent lost hooks, whether lying on a lake
bed or embedded in the flesh of a fish, from becoming safety or
environmental hazards because of an inability to break down. It is to be
understood, however, that a fishhook having both its point and its eye
covered by a coating material, as herein described, still falls within the
scope of the present invention.

In view of the above, it will be seen that the several objects of the
invention are achieved and other advantageous results attained.



Nick

#11
gravelbar

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theres better coatings than teflon i belive that teflon coating hooks is why you get bad batchs of weak/brittle hooks due to the heat involved in applying it if its rushed ect you get problems ..
niflor, xylan, ptfe coatings amoung many others just not cost productive enough to justify using them ..

#12
paulmlpss

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[quote]How about a few reasons for a Teflon coating?

1) it prevents water getting to the base metal and stops it going rusty.

2) it allows a better penetration as it does not stick and slides in and penetrates better (in theory)

3) Non flash finish. [/quote]

If teflon slides in better do they use teflon coated needles at hospitals[/quote]

#13
salokcinnodrog

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How about a few reasons for a Teflon coating?

1) it prevents water getting to the base metal and stops it going rusty.

2) it allows a better penetration as it does not stick and slides in and penetrates better (in theory)

3) Non flash finish.


If teflon slides in better do they use teflon coated needles at hospitals


Thin Film and Interfaces at Cambridge University were researching the possibilities about using them for syringes.

I know that Teflon is used in other Medical Situations
I think you will find that PTFE| is Teflon, as Teflon is the DuPont Trade name for the produced product :wink:

http://en.wikipedia....afluoroethylene

As for the occasional bad hooks, it could be down to the surface having to be rough to apply the coating to allow it to "stick" or seal. That roughening could be weakening the hook itself as it will be creating heat that is not "in the right form"
Nick

#14
andydextrous

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I think the number of top anglers that pay to have their hooks sharpened, either by Jason, or others (even though not all of them admit it :wink:
) , pays testament to the fact that this is a real edge that - if fishing for that 'one big bite' shouldn't be ignored......


I've tried - and my hooks were rubbish afterwards..... and I don;t fish for only one bite a session.... but if I was that type of angler then I would be paying real attenion to making my hooks sharper than when they come out of the pack :)

#15
gravelbar

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Niflor, a composite coating of PTFE and Electroless Nickel, is a process for metals that results in an accurate, low-friction surface that is extremely hard and resistant to wear.

TriCemĀ® is one of the most wear & abrasion resistant coatings ever developed.
Low friction, self lubricating surfaces.
Excellent wear resistance.
Good corrosion resistance.
Uniform coating thickness.

xylan,xylar both contain ptfe and can be sprayed without keying the surface and dont need the heat that teflon does to cure.

The above are far superior to just teflon just way more expensive.

As for weakness its down to heat alone if you heat metal and cool it in different ways you can make it soft or brittle .. :wink:

#16
andydextrous

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:?







!

#17
coops_northants

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Personally i dont think you need to do too much with the hooks. I used to have a hook sharpener in my box, you just dip it in water then when the tip of the hook goes you just give it a couple of rubs not sand it right back. I used this alot when match carp fishing on castle ashby and drayton where you would catch 20-30 fish a session and rig tying was time consuming, just a qick rub once the hook point dulled down.

I would say have one, but only use it if you can notice a blunting of the hook. Dont forget you can knock the top off the hook with a finger nail if your not carefull and the hook sharpener would save you a couple quid in the long run.

Where do you get them from?? i need a new one as mine is near dead and i like it for my pike hooks too.

#18
carpingod150

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Personally i dont think you need to do too much with the hooks. I used to have a hook sharpener in my box, you just dip it in water then when the tip of the hook goes you just give it a couple of rubs not sand it right back. I used this alot when match carp fishing on castle ashby and drayton where you would catch 20-30 fish a session and rig tying was time consuming, just a qick rub once the hook point dulled down.

I would say have one, but only use it if you can notice a blunting of the hook. Dont forget you can knock the top off the hook with a finger nail if your not carefull and the hook sharpener would save you a couple quid in the long run.

Where do you get them from?? i need a new one as mine is near dead and i like it for my pike hooks too.


Most places sell them mate, try a search for diamond hook sharpener on Google. I found an old knife sharpening stone in my kitchen draw that seems to do the trick with hooks :wink:

#19
666carpcatcher

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Fox do one in there predator range :wink:

#20
coops_northants

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Fox do one in there predator range :wink:


Some of the pike ones can be a little coarse, you need to go vertical or the ridges stop the hook going in too far.




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