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hormones


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21 replies to this topic

#1
nafy118

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ok this has to be one of the most 'Advanced' conversations me and some friends had on a recent session, do the hormones that WE give of affect how many carp we catch??

heres the situation, one of my mates ALWAYS catches regardless of how, when and where he will catch on a session, good angling perhaps?
i was using same bait, same tactics, along the same patrol route that we aer 100% sure the fish follow because we've been watching the water for a while now, but yet i didn't catch . . . until . . . my mate handled my hook baits and free offerings and cast out my rods in our own experiment and then i started catching, i recast . . . nothing . . . he recast . . . fish

could our hormones affect how many carp we catch?? is the myth of carp being attracted to a womens bait really true??

#2
beanz

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i can remember being told as a kid that the female pheromones attracted fish and using a pube hair was the best way :shock:


thats some bush to get a 2" hair :shock: :lol: :lol:

#3
salokcinnodrog

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i can remember being told as a kid that the female pheromones attracted fish and using a pube hair was the best way :shock:


thats some bush to get a 2" hair :shock: :lol: :lol:


Keep it clean :roll: and I'm also trying not to laugh :? :wink:

Nafy,
That is a question and a half.

Some anglers may have a natural smell, hormones or pheromones that attract or repel carp, and I do not think it has anything to do with sex drive or how "manly" you are. I think that I have fairly high testosterone level (get your minds above your navel), its down to how fast my hair and stubble grows :wink:
Now I probably catch a more than fair share of fish, so maybe I provide some attraction to some fish and so catch a few.

Some anglers will possibly catch a particular fish on their first visit to the lake, and then that fish avoids them forever more. Tim Paisley wrote about a particular fish on Birch Grove that Paddy Webb caught (either or almost) first trip, yet some anglers just couldn't catch it. Tim Paisley had only caught it once, and John Lilley could NOT catch it. Then some fish may be continually attracted to particular anglers. No matter how many times they catch "that" fish, it keeps coming back to them, yet other anglers do not catch it.



Apparently Male Wild Boar meat is not liked by a number of men who have high testosterone levels, so is it also possible that men with high hormone levels do not catch as many male carp as they do females?
Could this be down to the threat factor in the male carp and the attraction in the female carp. Females of all species seem to gravitate together, so the female hormone may be less threatening and provide a "sexual" conquest, part of harem scenario to attract males and the safety and comfort with other females?

Womens pheromones are supposed to be very attractive to fish, maybe the "lack of threat" :?: (Is the dominant female hormone progesterone?)
Nick

#4
levigsp

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Interesting points Nick.
You mention Wildboar, well staying with pigs for a moment.
Did you know that male pig meat wild or domestic suffers from something called boar taint a mix of hormone and acids that taint the meat.
Now in some country's it is common practice to castrate young male pigs because people find the flest unpalatable when tainted.
Strange thig is that Men can taste it more than Women and some nationalities more than others.
The Danes have done extensive tests on this and found that Slavic people[from Poland and Cz] could taste 5ppm hormone for females and 2ppm for males.
Uk people from [Eng &Scot] 55ppm female and 42ppm male.

Now your thinking what the hell has all this to do with carp, well if we can taste Hormones in our food at them rates what do you think carp can taste with their sensitive tastes.
I do know certain carp strains can taste estrogen at less then 1ppm!
Makes you think.
Frank
The Carp we catch today are not ours to do with as we please.
We have them in trust for those anglers yet to be born.

#5
miggs

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Interesting points Nick.
You mention Wildboar, well staying with pigs for a moment.
Did you know that male pig meat wild or domestic suffers from something called boar taint a mix of hormone and acids that taint the meat.
Now in some country's it is common practice to castrate young male pigs because people find the flest unpalatable when tainted.
Strange thig is that Men can taste it more than Women and some nationalities more than others.
The Danes have done extensive tests on this and found that Slavic people[from Poland and Cz] could taste 5ppm hormone for females and 2ppm for males.
Uk people from [Eng &Scot] 55ppm female and 42ppm male.

Now your thinking what the hell has all this to do with carp, well if we can taste Hormones in our food at them rates what do you think carp can taste with their sensitive tastes.
I do know certain carp strains can taste estrogen at less then 1ppm!
Makes you think.
Frank


Sorry if this sounds a bit think but what does PPM stand for?

#6
beanz

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parts per a million i think :?

#7
nafy118

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i can remember being told as a kid that the female pheromones attracted fish and using a pube hair was the best way :shock:


thats some bush to get a 2" hair :shock: :lol: :lol:


Keep it clean :roll: and I'm also trying not to laugh :? :wink:

Nafy,
That is a question and a half.

Some anglers may have a natural smell, hormones or pheromones that attract or repel carp, and I do not think it has anything to do with sex drive or how "manly" you are. I think that I have fairly high testosterone level (get your minds above your navel), its down to how fast my hair and stubble grows :wink:
Now I probably catch a more than fair share of fish, so maybe I provide some attraction to some fish and so catch a few.

Some anglers will possibly catch a particular fish on their first visit to the lake, and then that fish avoids them forever more. Tim Paisley wrote about a particular fish on Birch Grove that Paddy Webb caught (either or almost) first trip, yet some anglers just couldn't catch it. Tim Paisley had only caught it once, and John Lilley could NOT catch it. Then some fish may be continually attracted to particular anglers. No matter how many times they catch "that" fish, it keeps coming back to them, yet other anglers do not catch it.



Apparently Male Wild Boar meat is not liked by a number of men who have high testosterone levels, so is it also possible that men with high hormone levels do not catch as many male carp as they do females?
Could this be down to the threat factor in the male carp and the attraction in the female carp. Females of all species seem to gravitate together, so the female hormone may be less threatening and provide a "sexual" conquest, part of harem scenario to attract males and the safety and comfort with other females?

Womens pheromones are supposed to be very attractive to fish, maybe the "lack of threat" :?: (Is the dominant female hormone progesterone?)


thanks for the reply nick,

we've just had another similar situation, different lake this time, i was catching more than he was, again same baits etc etc, but i was catching more then we done the experiment i handled his hookbaits and he had a fish on the bank within half an hour, might just be completely coincidental but we're going back to the lake where this originally started to see how things go

#8
ward2k70

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really interesting thread this

A water i used to fish a few years ago got me thinking about this sort of thing the only way i would catch would be to spray a flavour down the last 2 feet of line ,tubing ,lead and hooklink fished with a single hookbait also sprayed. Now could it be that the flavour i was using would pull them in on the bait but also at the same time masking the "human smell" which would be left after the handling of the rig :?:

#9
hajiro

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This is from another web page it not the answer to this question on its own
but may be part of the wider picture see what you think,


Female Hormones Feminising Fish

Karen Kidd
Karen - What we did was a whole lake experiment at the Experimental Lake Area in North Western Ontario. We took the oestrogen that’s used in birth control pills and added it to the lake for several summers. The reason that we did this is because there was quite a bit of evidence coming out of the UK in the 1990s showing that male fish living downstream of municipal waste water outflows were becoming feminised. What I mean when I say feminised is that males were starting to produce egg proteins and in the more severe cases they were developing eggs. Several follow-up studies had actually started to link this feminisation in wild males to the presence of oestrogens that women excrete naturally or the synthetic oestrogen that women excrete when they’re taking the birth control pill.

Chris - If you were already aware of that data what were you hoping to learn by doing it in a sealed lake?

Karen - Well, the big question that we want to answer with our study was ‘so what does it mean for the fish populations to have feminised males?’ Can these males still successfully reproduce or are we going to see them decline in their numbers?

Chris - When you did this what was the outcome of putting the oestrogen in the water?

Karen - Right away the males started to respond as we expected they would so we started to produce egg proteins and in one species of fish the male started to develop eggs after the first summer. These kinds of feminisation responses weren’t surprising to us. In the second summer conditions we had quite a surprising response in that the fathead minnow, this is a very common and short-lived species in North America, had stopped reproducing. That led to a collapse in the fish population.

Chris - These fish don’t live very long which is why if they stop reproducing their numbers are going to fall dramatically quite quick. What about if you look at fish that live much longer?

Karen - We looked at another longer-lived minnow species, the pearl dace. Their numbers did decline but they didn’t decline quite as rapidly or as dramatically as the fathead minnows. That was telling us that yes, the characteristic of the fish, the life histories of the fish really affect how sensitive it is to these oestrogens. The ones that only reproduce once and then die off seem to be much more sensitive to oestrogens than the ones are longer-lived and reproduce several times over their life cycle. What we also saw in our study that was quite a surprise was the impact that the oestrogen had on the longest-lived fish: the lakeshrimp. It seems that the lakeshrimp weren’t affected by the oestrogens directly but their numbers dropped in the third year of our study because they lost their food supply. When the fathead minnow population collapsed the lakeshrimp lost some of its prey and that, in turn, led to a drop in their numbers. This was pretty sobering to us because it showed that oestrogens can affect fish populations directly and indirectly through the food chain.

Chris - In other words by having a previously unrealised impact, by knocking down the populations and taking away the food supply your oestrogen is also affecting the fish in another way.

Karen - That’s right. It’s an indirect effect of this input of oestrogens into our environment that we didn’t expect to see in our whole lake experiment.

Chris - I guess the key question is, we know we’re contamination water downstream of sewers and things but if we were to clean up our act tomorrow how long would the repercussions last for?

Karen - I think in our case we saw the fathead minnow population recover in three summers. It does suggest that they can recover quite quickly and certainly that’s at the population level but when you look at things like the egg protein production or the development of eggs those kinds of responses in males would go away very rapidly after you removed the oestrogen from the system.

Chris - The other possibility is we just tell women they’re not allowed to take the pill any more...

Karen - That’s right. I’ve had that question before so does this mean we should ban the use of the birth control pill? The answer to that is no. We know 100 million women world-wide rely on the birth control pill and the answer really is in better ways of water treatment: making sure the waste water is treated at least with secondary treatment.

August 2008

#10
welder

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Here's my take on this.

I should ecourage my wife to come fishing with me and handle my terminal tackle.

But I can't have a bacon sandwich.

Is that about right?

Ian
I started with nothing....still got it.

#11
jonezy

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Load of old cods wallop.

#12
hajiro

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What is needed is one of those HRT patches to stick on the inside of your bait bag then you can go fishing with out the wife.

But its only going to work if the hormone the carp are picking up on is oestrogen.

we are looking at this response being caused by hormones but I think it more probable that the response is to pheromones as it is these substances that animals respond to more than hormones.

SORRY I know know this only complicates the question but i do think its getting interesting.

#13
carpquarry

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Thats why the Salmon record is held by a women when its only a small % of women fish, If we all start taking our wifes fishing they will kick our butts for sure!! :oops:

#14
possonchat

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ive been going to france for 6 years and i work my butt of to catch watching the water all the time etc despite the effort i put in i canot beat my mum she out catches me every time, plus i fish every week in the uk and yet my mum only fishes over in france. enough said pheromones do work

p.s still wouldnt take the misses tho its the only time i have sum peace and quiet id end ud chuckin her in :lol: :lol:






Edited for swearing ~ Please don't do it!
x2gsd


#15
russ_29

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iv recently been to center parks and blagged the missis 2 come fishin she had 2 fish in the time i had 1 and was talking to a bloke that works in fosters that she had caught her fisrt 2 carp on her fisrt go and he said it was pheromones he said he had a mate who when he go's fishin with his wife gets her to bait up for him and his catch rate doubles not tryed it but will try it if i can get my missis there again lol

#16
crayonhussy

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Here's my take on this.

I should ecourage my wife to come fishing with me and handle my terminal tackle.

But I can't have a bacon sandwich.

Is that about right?

Ian

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Ah that really tickled me :D

#17
mikewilson

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There is a 'fright substance' found in a number of animals, fish and human sweat known as Serine. Laevorotatory Serine is an amino acid and can be detected by some fish [salmon] in one part per billion. I've seen it work under test conditions and now know the importance of 'clean' hands [scrubbed in lakeside mud] before baiting up.

Mike

#18
kbg

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There is a 'fright substance' found in a number of animals, fish and human sweat known as Serine. Laevorotatory Serine is an amino acid and can be detected by some fish [salmon] in one part per billion. I've seen it work under test conditions and now know the importance of 'clean' hands [scrubbed in lakeside mud] before baiting up.

Mike


Hmm... As serine is an amino acid, it will be present in largely every protein and amino acid mixture available for fishing in at least ppb levels.

#19
jp17

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When I was fishing a lake, I had my girlfreind rub the bolies i was going to use each morring before work to see if it helped, but i cant really say i got more or less fish that weekend. Just dont go around the lake asking some blokes misses to rub your bolies, might send the wrong message. :lol: :wink:
JP

#20
carpmadmichael

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this is really interesting because when i was younger i used to catch a reasonable amount of fish every time i went fishing, but ever since i started puberty things got a bit worse i know it might sound strange but its true.

And i have had more blanks then ever, this could be linked to all the hormones because in the same case as the opening post i was fishing with a friend in the same swim and he was catching and i wasn't, so you know what its like you ask them for some bait.... so i used his bait and still nothing. so we looked at each others rigs and i used a rig exactly the same as his, same bait same fishing spot and still nothing. that was one of the most frustrating days fishing i have ever had and thinking about it now it all started when i started puberty so its really interesting if this is why. and if it is true then i would like to stop puberty and start catching fish again please haha :lol:




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