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jamieh90

Mouth and body care

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What are people's recommendations on the carp care kits. I've seen the kryston, korda etc. but I've also read people using TCP and bonjela. What's everyone else using?

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Bonjela is fine if its gud enough for humans to use its gotta be good. It annoys me how these tackle companys bang on bout carp care yet charge a fortune for anti septic why dont they sell it at cost if there as botherd as they make out. You can buy human grade anti septic for a fraction of the money a tackle company sells it. Says it all.

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i use klin-ik myself. quite agree with the above post as well. what annoys me is the amount of anglers that still dont carry any kind of carp care kit :roll: . i personnaly think that all lake owners/bailiffs should ask any angler fishing their lakes if they have any? if not no fishing until you do

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Basic mouth damage, use iodine.

Body damage needs other things.

Not sure whether I am allowed to do this but I will.

Get in touch with Alan, Perfection Ground baits, he has a Kit that has had the best out there working on it :wink:

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A koi breeder told me about a product a couple of years ago called Propolis, that they all use on their prize koi. If it's good enough for koi worth thousands then that's good enough for me.

It is a natural antiseptic that is a bi product of bee's making honey. It's a liquid that you spread over the effect area then gently splash water over it, this causes it to solidify so it looks like a waxy covering.

Great stuff and is available from specialist koi websites or from holland and barrat for around a fiver.

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A koi breeder told me about a product a couple of years ago called Propolis, that they all use on their prize koi. If it's good enough for koi worth thousands then that's good enough for me.

It is a natural antiseptic that is a bi product of bee's making honey. It's a liquid that you spread over the effect area then gently splash water over it, this causes it to solidify so it looks like a waxy covering.

Great stuff and is available from specialist koi websites or from holland and barrat for around a fiver.

 

second that, you can also buy propolis in holland and barrets thats where i got mine I think its like 50ml for 2.99

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Hello, for those of you using or suggesting the use of propolis, I would like to offer my advice, it is advice based on my family's use of Propolis for over 100 years.

If you cut into any animal including fish with steralised equipment and seal it quickly with Propolis, all things being equal the cut should heal, especialy if the imune system works.

Propolis has been used in dressings in warfare for hundreds if not thousands of years.

The problems we come to with carp are these: Carp have a very pure if not absent imune system below 10oC.

Carp live in water that is FULL of bacteria that can and often is leathal to them.

Their bodies are covered in this bacteria waiting for a point of entry.

 

So you hook and play a fish and it sustains some damage during the fight, you cover the said damage with propolis and put it back in the water.

Now what you have done is sealed bacteria into an open cut, it has no way out and happily enters the body, its been waiting for this chance.

If the water temp is well up and the fish is in good health its own imune system might just get rid of the bacteria, if it is cold you have signed is death warrent.

 

In a Koi system the water temps are NORMALY held artificaly high, by its build or heating, so the kois immune system works.

It gets a sore, furuncal, or watever, so the keeper realizes this and gets rid of a lot of the bacteria, by dillution or the use of a bacteriacide, he then cleans the wound before applying the propolis to a sterial site and then most likely he will eather inject antibiotic or feed the fish on them.

Obviously the above account is way different to a wild fish.

 

In the wild fish you have to think about temps, below about 12 deg I would kill the bacteria with iodine, I would then dry the site and seal with one of the Vetenary sealing products.

Above 12 deg I would clean the wound with Iodine and prey the weather and fish imune system holds up.

Carp in the wild only normaly sustain dammage when the water is warm, 18deg plus, therefore their own imune system helps them heal, but some die every year.

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For years and years I have used Kryston Klinik.

 

Its simple, and it works.

 

It is an antiseptic, it does not need to solidify as it gets to the bottom of the cut, cleaning and providing antiseptic relief. It also works at 'washing' leeches off the fish.

 

 

As Frank has said, no point in leaving the bacteria in the fish if the immune system can't deal with it, so as far as I know, then Klinik is able to deal with it.

 

 

http://www.kryston.com/products-redone/klin-ik/

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I'm guessing more fish get caught and returned with no care what so ever and as Pete said what happened in the past , include all the fish caught by river and match anglers that will receive no care at all is treating a wound or hook hole as important as is suggested ?.

Don't get me wrong i am not suggesting you don't do it .

And has anyone ever seen a fish being treated on an angling programme

I will continue to do what i do now , i just wonder where it all came from , genuine need or commercial greed .

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In some cases it is a marketing ploy, but we all have a moral obligation to look after our quarry. I have read a lot on various treatments, albeit Tackle Company endorsed anyway i know very little about the Koi stuff, although i have read on many occasions about salt baths being used on Koi and so on, how close is the genetic make up of a Koi to a King Carp?

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Just out of interest what used to happen 20 odd years ago when nobody gave wounds a second thought. Did the fish just die?
Some most cetainly did, but you also have to think about the following.

Less carp in ponds then now, so less harmfull bacteria.

Less angling pressue, so less stess, so immune system working correctly.

No winter fishing, so carp were caught whilst their imune systems were working at their peak.

So all in all they had a better deal the further back in time you go.

EVERY thing we can do to minimise problems the better in my book.

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One final point, that someone raised,when did it all start?

I do not know, I do however know that at least two people were treating bad tears, mouth dammage in the early 70s, I was one of them.

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So another question, How good is this commercial "carp Medicine" how do you know that once you have applied itthat as soon as the fish goes back into the lake it just simply washes off leaving the wound open. Now i agree that we should all take good care of the fish that we catch but all these wonder concoctions are they just simply to ease our conscience and make carp fishermen feel better.

What scientific evidence is there besides the tackle companies sayso that any of this does anygood at all.

Now dont all have a go at me i am just playing devils advocate, but i personally have my doubts about any of these wonder remedies

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So another question, How good is this commercial "carp Medicine" how do you know that once you have applied itthat as soon as the fish goes back into the lake it just simply washes off leaving the wound open. Now i agree that we should all take good care of the fish that we catch but all these wonder concoctions are they just simply to ease our conscience and make carp fishermen feel better.

What scientific evidence is there besides the tackle companies sayso that any of this does anygood at all.

Now dont all have a go at me i am just playing devils advocate, but i personally have my doubts about any of these wonder remedies

 

I know what you are saying, and with a good immune system they probably aren't needed, but if we do clean and put antiseptic on any wound then surely we are doing some good, and preventing additional harm.

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but what i cant grasp is that we put a mainly water base antiseptic on a fish wound and then put the fish in water...... washing the solution off straight away. do you treat all fish the same as a carp does mr bream get equal treatment. i like to think that my fish care is second to none but i do question these treatments

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And has anyone ever seen a fish being treated on an angling programme? .

 

I've seen Mr Fairbrass mention it once on his Thickie Tank programme, the amount of fish they show getting caught and posing with, you'd think they'd mention it every time if theyre trying to sell it.

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but what i cant grasp is that we put a mainly water base antiseptic on a fish wound and then put the fish in water...... washing the solution off straight away. do you treat all fish the same as a carp does mr bream get equal treatment. i like to think that my fish care is second to none but i do question these treatments

 

It's not often I catch bream :lol: , but yes I do treat almost all of the chub, pike and carp I catch with Klinik

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but what i cant grasp is that we put a mainly water base antiseptic on a fish wound and then put the fish in water...... washing the solution off straight away. do you treat all fish the same as a carp does mr bream get equal treatment. i like to think that my fish care is second to none but i do question these treatments

 

It's not often I catch bream :lol: , but yes I do treat almost all of the chub, pike and carp I catch with Klinik

 

I have to treat myself when i get a pike :lol::lol:

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I beleave that most of the angling products are actualy alchohol based, only a few are water based.

My sister tested a few of them a while ago and found most to be providine iodine [alchohol based], others were basic acraflavine [water based and good cloth dye].

Although alchohol disolves in water it also penentrates cuts etc far better.

Anyone with any medical knowlidge at all, knows that any puncture closes up quickly, only the outside remains open somewhat, but the festering starts inside the wound.

Putting iodine on the puncture effectively kills the bacteria down to the very rooks of said pucture, providing its done before the pucture starts closing.

That way although the carrier[alchohol] is washed away, the active ingreadient is still where its meant to be and it will remain active for a few days.

Early on in this thread I sugested a kit, the reason for that was I know it was put together with the help of vets that specialise in fish and it contains everything most anglers would like.

My own kit would frighten most anglers, it contains,; Blotting paper, Alchahol, Super glue, Medical suture kit, Iodine and two antibiotics.

99% of the time I use the iodine.

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What about sudocrem? this is not something I have used on a fish but it is very good stuff. antiseptic, mild analgesic, promotes healing and isn't water soluble! oh yes it has a five year shelf life....

 

i have no plans to use it but i may ask my local vet for their opinion

 

The label does say external use only, so of course reading this I put some on my tongue earlier and nothing bad happened :lol:

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