Jump to content

Milk protein or fish meal boilies which do you folks think are a more effective all round bait


Fishbits
 Share

Recommended Posts

Temperature was a factor in relation to digesting casein but the fish's own gut juices were able to do the job so in relation to an earlyer post why do you add trypsin?

 

I love this forum this has got to be one of the most informative forum threads I've had thanks guys I don't profess to know everything regarding our quarry I feel I have a balanced bait for the year but to understand the core differences between protein sources a little better is excellent all be it a little sad ! Thanks guys for a great thread !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My milk inclusion is 25% including concentrates I will find a link to a research document where carps liver and pancreas were sampled after the processing fish, milk, soya, etc and the overall result was the protein digested was much the same at around 82%

thats roughly the same amount as my inclusion of milks when i do a fishmeal, birdfood or nut based bait. though when i do a milk protein 90% of the mix is refined milk proteins giving it a very high protein content and like ive said at the right time of year with the right conditions and right balance of pre baiting the milk protein bait made a very hard water look some what easy and that was in the winter. its only downside is the price.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course, dalthegooner The EU regulations only refer to what is sold commercially not what you use in your homemade recipe.

 

As for the Milk Protein baits and I am referring here to the high protein versions originally trundled out from many a flats steamy kitchen back in the 1980's, one thing that will doom them to failure as the ultimate bait* is the Carp's gut, or lack of it compared say to a warm blooded creature, and even such a warm blooded animal cant live upon its mothers milk for very long, no matter how good it is. Sooner or later all creatures turn to other foods for their dietary needs.

 

*a bait that would supply all a fish's dietary needs in one ball.

 

But Carp, are in a worse position, as they don't have the biological wherewithal to break down a true milk protein bait, particularly in cold weather. All that happens is the fish's digestive transit slows and slows, (posh speak for constipation to you and me), and in so doing the bait fills up a Carp, and thus stops it feeding, add in to the mix that their gut is shorter by a whole stomach, and they are well stuf,  er, stuck. :)

 

This, unless I miss my mark, is the opposite of what WE want.

 

Years back, before I was converted to the then all conquering Premiers Fishmeal baits, I had stopped using refined Milk Proteins in my baits, turning to Rod Hutchinsons version of lambs milk replacement powder for ease of digestion, and putting it in a ground birdfood base. In modern times my bait would be thought of as a milky / birdfood bait, rather than a true Milk Protein effort.

 

The main ingredients for one recipe for an early Milk Protein bait were:-

 

 

Acid Casein 30 mesh  

Acid Casein 90 mesh 

Sodium Caseinate    

Calcium Caseinate  

Lactalbumen             

Soya Isolate              

Egg Albumen           

Wheat Gluten

 

Unfortunately I cant remember the other two ingredients, (it was a simple 10% of each item per mix), but anyone who has an old label from a bag of H-Nu-Val could get as close as a commercial mix could afford to get.

 

As for me I would stick to a modern (ish) birdfood base mix with added Yeast powder, and ground Trout Pellets or Trout fry crumb. Keeping the added oil content to as little Winterized fish oil as you can during the colder months, just enough to help the baits roll well.

 

Good Luck all.

 

 

BOF  :wink:          

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But Carp, are in a worse position, as they don't have the biological wherewithal to break down a true milk protein bait, particularly in cold weather. All that happens is the fish's digestive transit slows and slows, (posh speak for constipation to you and me), and in so doing the bait fills up a Carp, and thus stops it feeding, add in to the mix that their gut is shorter by a whole stomach, and they are well stuf,  er, stuck. :)

 

This, unless I miss my mark, is the opposite of what WE want.

 

Years back, before I was converted to the then all conquering Premiers Fishmeal baits, I had stopped using refined Milk Proteins in my baits, turning to Rod Hutchinsons version of lambs milk replacement powder for ease of digestion, and putting it in a ground birdfood base. In modern times my bait would be thought of as a milky / birdfood bait, rather than a true Milk Protein effort.

 

As for me I would stick to a modern (ish) birdfood base mix with added Yeast powder, and ground Trout Pellets or Trout fry crumb. Keeping the added oil content to as little Winterized fish oil as you can during the colder months, just enough to help the baits roll well.

 

Good Luck all.

 

 

BOF  :wink:          

 

Good post and very good, solid advice BOF.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello mooseman, good to see you right on the nail again! I switched from Hutchies protein mix over to Premier baits fish meals at about the same time. The results with those baits soaked in Salmon oil were excellent. That was until everyone used gallons of Salmon oil and results slowed right up. I still use the same recipe today (around 40% protein) and use Nodd oil in the winter. 

 

Now a little note here, remember Bernie Loftus? He fished Harefield when it was a top notch water, around 20/25 yrs ago. Everyone was fishing high protein milk or fishmeals on the water. It was a very difficult water to fish then and had most of the top names on it, Zenon Bojko, Rob Maylin,etc etc etc. Bernie went on there with Richworth Tutti Fruities and tore the place apart. The crap bait constantly outfished the protein baits and that is fact...

I remember Rob Maylin once saying his semo baits constantly outfished his proteins. I personally have no real opinion on what outfishes what. What I do know is that carp are scavengers and take all sorts in one end and out the other. What I do believe in is if we are going to introduce a food source it should be beneficial to the carp.Sometimes I think we tend to treat carp like some clued up brainy eating machine. Even us humans eat allot of crap. I think fishmeals combined with birdfoods work better than milk protein because they represent a more similar flavour to what carp eat in their environment. They eat crayfish,fry,spawn,deadfish,mussles,and fishmeals are closer to those than milk proteins... Then again remember Berinie Loftus and his tutties, and I have to remember I did really well on Rodney Meadow 25 years ago on chocolate malt 50/50 milk protein mix.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello mooseman, good to see you right on the nail again! I switched from Hutchies protein mix over to Premier baits fish meals at about the same time. The results with those baits soaked in Salmon oil were excellent. That was until everyone used gallons of Salmon oil and results slowed right up. I still use the same recipe today (around 40% protein) and use Nodd oil in the winter. 

 

Now a little note here, remember Bernie Loftus? He fished Harefield when it was a top notch water, around 20/25 yrs ago. Everyone was fishing high protein milk or fishmeals on the water. It was a very difficult water to fish then and had most of the top names on it, Zenon Bojko, Rob Maylin,etc etc etc. Bernie went on there with Richworth Tutti Fruities and tore the place apart. The stinky winky bait constantly outfished the protein baits and that is fact...

I remember Rob Maylin once saying his semo baits constantly outfished his proteins. I personally have no real opinion on what outfishes what. What I do know is that carp are scavengers and take all sorts in one end and out the other. What I do believe in is if we are going to introduce a food source it should be beneficial to the carp.Sometimes I think we tend to treat carp like some clued up brainy eating machine. Even us humans eat allot of stinky winky. I think fishmeals combined with birdfoods work better than milk protein because they represent a more similar flavour to what carp eat in their environment. They eat crayfish,fry,spawn,deadfish,mussles,and fishmeals are closer to those than milk proteins... Then again remember Berinie Loftus and his tutties, and I have to remember I did really well on Rodney Meadow 25 years ago on chocolate malt 50/50 milk protein mix.

My text was edited....Stinky winky replaced the word parc (spell parc bakwards!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My text was edited....Stinky winky replaced the word parc (spell parc bakwards!)

 

Cheers Stephen, I'm very analytical but tend to keep in mind the basics because they seem to just work! There have been lots of advances in bait and tackle but nothing seems to have really changed does it? Especially not the carp!

 

Ha ha the "Stinky winky" got you too eh? I posted on a thread about rods earlier and they guys must have thought, "What is he on about - Stinky winky carbon...!!!???"

:P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...