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serbusfish

Losing fish during the fight

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I was wondering what is the best way to avoid fishing coming off during the fight?

 

The reason I ask is I fish a small match lake which contains small carp (ive complained about this place before, im sure a few of you will remember??) and these fish bite thick and fast, but so many seem to come off after hooking them. Me and my dad went on Sunday, he caught 20 but lost 12+. I also lost at least 8.

 

We were using Drennan quick stops hair rigs in size 10. I was wondering if this hook was perhaps too small which was making it easier for the fish to knock them out during the fights? Im thinking about using a bigger hook the next time I go, I have some of these:

 

CARPteflon.jpg

 

Would this be a good tactic? I use sweetcorn on the hooks with no hair rig when float fishing and corn on hair rigs when on the feeder.

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Bigger hooks will help. So long as you don't go too big and the fish stop biting.

 

Ok cheers, I have the size 10's so will give them a try. The carp are only in the range of 3 - 6lb (with a few at 8 - 12lb) so I dont want to go too big, I figured 2 pieces of corn covering most of the hook should do the trick?

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I've heard Ken Townley talk about tuitions where he would open the bail arm on fish on barbless hooks and still land them as a demonstration and to dispell the myths about barbless. It is right about keeping tension on but to be losing that number it will be a more fundamental issue with regards the hook not setting properly.

 

If you have a good hook hold they shouldn't be coming off unless the line is lifted by weed etc that helps move the hook.

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Serbus...how are you getting on with the float set up? I think this was something you were just starting?

 

I have had a few goes with it, the first time i was just fishing in the margins with maggots, caught a nice Tench and managed to hook a 12lb pike in the tail :mrgreen:

 

I used it on Sunday too, only had one small carp before switching back to the feeder. I need to get it set up properly, I have been fishing at random depths as I dont have a plummet, once I pick one up I can have a proper go at it.

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I know this sounds obvious but you need to maintain the tension of the line when the fish is on .

The slightest lapse in tension can mean lost fish especially if your on barbless hooks :wink:

 

Trust me im keeping the line tight. In fact its usually when they really pull the hook comes out. I went down again today and fished for a few hours in the evening. Had 7, lost around 5, so not as bad as Sunday.

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I had a funny old day yesterday. Went to Stream Valley lake in Crowborough. Caught 6 (biggest was 20lb, smallest was 12, all Mirrors funnily enough, not a Common amongst them) but I lost three fish as well.

Funny thing was, in each case I knew during the fight that I was going to lose them!

Those 3 in particular were "tentative" takes, not screamers like the other 6.

Initially I thought that I had either struck too early or missed them altogether.

I took my bobbins off in the end and just relied on my baitrunner clicking round.

That stopped me going for the rod straight away as I've noticed over the last few outings that I had started lifting into a rising bobbin rather than wait for the run to develop.

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I have had a few goes with it, the first time i was just fishing in the margins with maggots, caught a nice Tench and managed to hook a 12lb pike in the tail :mrgreen:

 

I used it on Sunday too, only had one small carp before switching back to the feeder. I need to get it set up properly, I have been fishing at random depths as I dont have a plummet, once I pick one up I can have a proper go at it.

Serb , just pinch a couple of swan shot gently just above your hook .

As good as any plummet mate .

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Cool that the float is working for you along with the feeder.

 

Can't see the need for a plummet on a lake. As newmarket says add some swan shot and over weight it and you'll be able to get the depth. If you want it on the bottom look at the lift or laying on methods.

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I had a funny old day yesterday. Went to Stream Valley lake in Crowborough. Caught 6 (biggest was 20lb, smallest was 12, all Mirrors funnily enough, not a Common amongst them) but I lost three fish as well.

Funny thing was, in each case I knew during the fight that I was going to lose them!

Those 3 in particular were "tentative" takes, not screamers like the other 6.

Initially I thought that I had either struck too early or missed them altogether.

I took my bobbins off in the end and just relied on my baitrunner clicking round.

That stopped me going for the rod straight away as I've noticed over the last few outings that I had started lifting into a rising bobbin rather than wait for the run to develop.

You managed to work out the problem though Rob :wink:

Glad you had another good outing . Fish to 20 nice ....

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I have this problem a lot too, especially when fishing waters with smaller fish.

 

What is odd though is I am on size 8 hooks and I have found the longer the fish runs before I strike the more likely the hook will pull (I thought there might be some mileage in the striking too early thing as being still quite new I can't deny that I get hugely excited every time the alarm pips. However I dont know if the hook pulls are just due to the smaller fish thrashing that bit more or if there is something in my rigs that is causing a poor hook hold. Some of these takes had the lead drop too which I would've thought would make a hook pull less likely so it seems very odd to me (I wasn't dropping the lead intentionally, it seems my sleeves have worn and need replacing).

 

In terms of numbers I fished my park lake last and had 4 out out of 12 runs (and that 4 includes one that shed the hook right infront of my swim and I JUST got the net under her, I kept my cool and kept fishing on but why I was getting soo many hook pulls is beyond me and was beginning to become a frustration/distraction.

 

Any tips?

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I have this problem a lot too, especially when fishing waters with smaller fish.

 

What is odd though is I am on size 8 hooks and I have found the longer the fish runs before I strike the more likely the hook will pull (I thought there might be some mileage in the striking too early thing as being still quite new I can't deny that I get hugely excited every time the alarm pips. However I dont know if the hook pulls are just due to the smaller fish thrashing that bit more or if there is something in my rigs that is causing a poor hook hold. Some of these takes had the lead drop too which I would've thought would make a hook pull less likely so it seems very odd to me (I wasn't dropping the lead intentionally, it seems my sleeves have worn and need replacing).

 

In terms of numbers I fished my park lake last and had 4 out out of 12 runs (and that 4 includes one that shed the hook right infront of my swim and I JUST got the net under her, I kept my cool and kept fishing on but why I was getting soo many hook pulls is beyond me and was beginning to become a frustration/distraction.

 

Any tips?

When you say strike , what do you mean exactly ?

Which lead set up do you use jon ? And what hooks ?

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Jontain..a few thoughts but I'm by no means an expert.

 

Losing the lead although accidental I would think may result in more hook pulls. Think about it and the effects of gravity. The lead will be pulling the hook down and into the mouth, especially if you get a momentary period when line goes slack.

 

Secondly maybe try playing with hair length. I'd maybe try lengthening the hair by a cm. I know others may disagree but I think you want the hook and bait to be acting as independently as possible. The closer the bait to the hook the more they work together and with a fish sucking in and sucking out it may be able to use the bait to shed the hook.

 

Certainly not exhaustive but I'd start with hair length, see how you get on and then maybe look at hook pattern if your fishing a straight point try beaked and the other way round.

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When I say strike I mean lifting the rod from the rest and turning the handle to switch off the bait runner, I will tend to raise the tip of the rod in a steady motion as well to bring up the tension in the line but by no means violently. Then I will asses how the fish feels on the end of the line to decide how to play it.

 

However as the OP said I sometimes just feel like it is not going to hold and in those cases it usually doesn't.

 

I use a lead clip setup and through out this example day I started at 1.5 oz leads as the fish are small and the bottom silty but as I lost more leads throughout the day I had to start using some larger leads as they were all I had left.

 

Hooks are Wide Gapes in size 8, all sharpened with my JAG tools (I am by no means an expert at hook sharpening but I tend to take as little off as possible to prevent weakening the hook whilst getting the hook sharp enough to catch when I test it on my nail).

 

As I am still 'cutting my teeth' on the smaller waters I want to try and over come any issues in case it is not down to the smaller fish and down to something I am doing wrong!

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The hair length thing is interesting as when I was first getting into my fishing I would tie the hair really quite short, pretty much so when held out straight the bottom of the hookbait just misses the hook (so about 1.5cm free).

 

However I am now tying rigs so that they have at least 1.5-2.5 cm free but haven't noticed a discernible difference as of yet. What would you say is really the maximum length of the free section of the hair (i.e. from the bottom of the hook bait to the hook)

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Jontain....it's an impossible one to answer as it depends on waters and fish. To be fair I've never really suffered hook pulls except when holding fish from getting into snags. Maybe I've just been lucky?

 

I'm sure someone with much more experience will offer some advice on what you've added.

 

I quite like gardner muggas and find these give really good hook holds.

 

If I was using a straight hook like a wide gap I'd tend to fish with a line aligner to help the hook turn.

 

What material are using for your hook link?

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Firstly , wide gapes . Who makes em ?
The fish you do manage to land , how is the hookhold ?
If i get loose hookholds or in the scissors of it mouth ( basically anything that is not smack bang middle bottom lip ) then i lengthen the hair and/or hooklength but change em one at a time .

With a lead clip set up you shouldnt have to strike . If the lead is doing its job ( try heavier ) and the hooks are sharp then then fish should be hooking itself no probs .

Theres a thread on here somewhere that pretty much disagrees with this but i suggest you try a basic mono hooklengrh tied basic knotless not style , RUNNING lead set up , a nice sharp size 6 muggas hook .

Back to basics but best place to start with problems like these :(

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The hooks are made by Korda, just the packet ones not the ones that come pre-sharpened and the hooklink is again Korda, N-Trap semi stiff I believe, I have some rigs where I have stripped back a good 1.5 - 2 inches of the coating after the hook as I thought this may help give less resistance on the take however could this be leading to the rig getting tangled as the fish tries to take it (i.e. the hook turns out or away from the fish?)

 

I also fish with a leader as I thought this was the norm to be honest, although with everything I read about the woes of lead core I do tend to use Kordas 'Safe-Zone' leaders rather than the lead core ones (I know safe-zone means to create an area the fish feel safe to feed rather than it being issue free but I do find I get a lot less tangles and no kinks at all in these leaders, in general I find the whole use leaders vs not using leaders quite confusing but that might be for another topic).

 

Most of my hook holds are in the bottom of the mouth and occasionally I will get one sides (scissors?) of the mouth. Also some will shed the hook once pressure is taken off while resting for a minute in the net whereas others will really nail themselves and require the hook removing on the matt. It is hard though to pin point what could be causing these differences.

 

I would like to try the running rig just using mono rather than a leader, I did get some fox leadcore running rig leaders but have found that the material is really prone to folding and kinking something silly! Next time I am out at this lake I will try one rig as I would normally fish it and one without a leader and just a running lead and see if this helps.

 

Would a size 6 hook not be a bit on the large size for smaller fish (i.e. between 6lb-12lb)?

 

Also I am not sure what a line aligner is but if it is the little sleeve that covers the hook knot then I sorta do this with skrink tube, although maybe it is not enough?

Edited by jontain

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Serb to try to put your thread back on track, if you're putting corn directly on the hook I'm always concerned about closing the gape and impeding the hook from taking a good hold. Fudgecat has good success so maybe he can help as he fishes that way. If your float fishing you do need to be striking. On a feeder whats been said in reply to jontain should be applicable.

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