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Zig fishing is simply fly fishing without a fly rod and line


Fishbits
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A lot to take in and digest!

 

I'm not keen on zig fishing, maybe it's simply down to my bad angling, but I don't catch many when I try the method, so as a result I don't try maybe when I should. However I do worry that I may foul hook a fish by the method, same as I don't knowingly fish for spawning fish, just in case they catch up and damage themselves on my hook.

 

Is zig rig fishing ethical I think is the main point? Is fly fishing for carp ethical?

Is there any difference?

 

To me, yes. Fly fishing for carp is trying to provoke them to take a 'fake' bait that is worked through the wAter, whereas zig rig fishing is trying to get them to take a bait that may be fake, may be a real bait, but is stationery. The two aren't really the same.

 

Same as floater fishing is not the same, even if you use a fly to floater fish. Fly fishing is different, you are in action, compared to zig fishing being still, as is much of carp fishing. Saying that, floater fishing and stalking are action fishing.

 

The end result of all, we are fishing for carp, whatever method we choose to use.

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Ok here's a topic to get everyone going on a cool Thursday I disagree with the ethics of zig fishing it is simply fly fishing by another name. Surely carp fishing is the presentation of a natural or HNV bait in the fishes usual feeding zone on the deck, or in some cases on the top. To me this is carp fishing in its truest sense, the use of artificial tied lures to catch carp to me is not right ITS FLY FISHING are we so desperate to catch that we will resort to any means to catch our chunky friends what is next "point" fishing with a bow and arrow or solid mesh fishing with a net, what has happened to the days of ethics and morals within angling if you want to fly fish for carp then fly fish don't dress it up as zig or lure fishing to me it's a different sport and should be classed as such. GO!

Can't see what point you're trying to make here , fishing is fishing in my mind you go to catch fish .you talk of fishing in its truest sense that to me certainly wouldn't include boilies or hair rigs yet im guessing you use them with no problem . People caught carp long before hair rigs by fishing with a baited hook would they look at how you fish a accuse you of fishing with no morals or ethics ?

IMHO zig rigging is just another way of catching carp , fly fishing is fly fishing never been but I don't think there are to many 3oz leads involved

And as for shooting them with a bow and arrow quite ridicules to even mention it plus I think that would fall under hunting rather than fishing

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before id ever heard of a zig, i used to target chub with flakes of bread above my ledger, think back then it was called "off the lead"???.....it caught me some BIG chub, i never felt it was wrong...iv caught pike on lures while walking up and down the banks and also sat on my asss dead baiting , never fly fish for pike but have seen some caught on the tactic....and that whats puzzle me!!!! TACTICS, different ways to gain the outcome you want...if its done with rod and line then , to me catch a carp on any tactic is ok.

 

now ethics,this is a totally different thread to tactics!!! i dont think modern carping has many..catch at all costs is far more than not caring for the fish,these days its the norm to gain as much info on a wander around to the point where some will spend more time talking than watching....so there you are set up and youve just been polite and told  a guy what youve seen over the last day or so, he sets up and lands the biggun....can he claim that as his ???? or do you have some claim to it too......if your fishing ethically (then for me) say hi or nod as you walk on by and go about pitting yourself against your chosen target...short on time??? so what!!! its a hobby,its a marathon not a sprint!!

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Ok here's a topic to get everyone going on a cool Thursday I disagree with the ethics of zig fishing it is simply fly fishing by another name...

This sentence implies that you feel fly fishing is unethical. What is unethical about fly fishing or zig fishing?

 

...Surely carp fishing is the presentation of a natural or HNV bait in the fishes usual feeding zone on the deck, or in some cases on the top. To me this is carp fishing in its truest sense...

No, carp fishing is angling with a bait presented with the intention of enticing only a carp onto the hook and not getting bites from other species of fish.

 

...the use of artificial tied lures to catch carp to me is not right ITS FLY FISHING...

What's wrong with fly fishing for carp?

 

...are we so desperate to catch that we will resort to any means to catch our chunky friends what is next "point" fishing with a bow and arrow or solid mesh fishing with a net...

I don't even know where to begin here. Sensationalist comments that wouldn't even have made it into the Sunday Sport :wink::P

 

what has happened to the days of ethics and morals within angling if you want to fly fish for carp then fly fish don't dress it up as zig or lure fishing to me it's a different sport and should be classed as such. GO!

I'll tipex fly rod onto my rods next time I put a zig on, it'll be ethical then, yes :confused:

 

 

I'm sorry but I don't agree with any point of your post at all.

 

Zig fishing isn't unethical.

 

Everything else is moot :wink:

Edited by dalthegooner
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You guys are all saying it's fine to use any method to catch carp or indeed any given quarry, I'm saying surely there is a line. I do I confess come from a background of fly fishing for trout which was/is a very strict form of fishing, indeed Id say you'd be hard pushed to find anyone trout fishing with maggots and a float even if allowed. I appreciate the differences posed by salmon and sea trout and I take that on. But I still feel however misguided that zig fishing is fly fishing by another name, and in my book somehow feels abit wrong I appologise if you are all offended.

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You guys are all saying it's fine to use any method to catch carp or indeed any given quarry, I'm saying surely there is a line. I do I confess come from a background of fly fishing for trout which was/is a very strict form of fishing, indeed Id say you'd be hard pushed to find anyone trout fishing with maggots and a float even if allowed. I appreciate the differences posed by salmon and sea trout and I take that on. But I still feel however misguided that zig fishing is fly fishing by another name, and in my book somehow feels abit wrong I appologise if you are all offended.

 

Even if, for argument sake, we agree that zig fishing is fly fishing by another name; that is still no basis, nor does it give any credence, to saying zig fishing is unethical (And, for the record, you haven't offended me :wink: )

 

Also why have people picked up on bow fishing but not netting fish is netting ok then ?

 

Refer to my first post in this subject :wink:

Edited by dalthegooner
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You guys are all saying it's fine to use any method to catch carp or indeed any given quarry, I'm saying surely there is a line. I do I confess come from a background of fly fishing for trout which was/is a very strict form of fishing, indeed Id say you'd be hard pushed to find anyone trout fishing with maggots and a float even if allowed. I appreciate the differences posed by salmon and sea trout and I take that on. But I still feel however misguided that zig fishing is fly fishing by another name, and in my book somehow feels abit wrong I appologise if you are all offended.

Nobody is offended Fishy . Its a forum and this sort of thing is what Forums are all about :wink:

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You guys are all saying it's fine to use any method to catch carp or indeed any given quarry, I'm saying surely there is a line. I do I confess come from a background of fly fishing for trout which was/is a very strict form of fishing, indeed Id say you'd be hard pushed to find anyone trout fishing with maggots and a float even if allowed. I appreciate the differences posed by salmon and sea trout and I take that on. But I still feel however misguided that zig fishing is fly fishing by another name, and in my book somehow feels abit wrong I appologise if you are all offended.

I can think of a few river stretches where people do float fish for trout with maggots, or even any method, and I know worms have been used for a few fish.

 

Have I aimed for trout with float and maggots, yes, in the Wensum. Where did said trout go?

Yep, my dinner.

 

Trout fishing at one point was so strict, that casting at the wrong angle for trout was seen as a no. 'Sorry old boy, I distinctly saw you cast at 75degrees, not the 60 you are meant to...'

 

Zig fishing is static fishing, fly fishing is not. With flies you are constantly working the nymph, the hatch, the fly itself or the current, a zig you are not. That is cast and left. The two are not the same.

 

Now if you had said zig bugging, then I may be close to agreeing with you, both are using artificial baits, both are approximations of insects, so have a lot in common, but even so, a zig bug is cast and left. An artificial fly is constantly worked, tweaked, retrieved, recast, and so on.

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What a heathen Fly angler I must be , Favourite fly would have to be the Baby Doll with green on it ,followed by a ( cant remember the name ,Pheasent/Peacock ? ) looks like a Mayfly Nymph though, that's has caught more than a few , all on stillwaters I might ad .

 

I did once fish the Piddle in Dorset upstream Dry using tiny flys on an 18 , caught about 4 around the 8 oz mark  and I loved every minute of that ,size was not important its what I achieved that made it so great.

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At the time when Halford and GM Skues were arguing over ethics in trout fishing (no wading, dry fly in a natural drift only considered acceptable) carp fishermen were still following the methods Walton layed out in Chapter 9, and they weren't catching very many. Angling has evolved and as far as I'm concerned anything that doesn't damage the carp is ok with me. We've gotten the occasional incidental mid-double on 4 or 5 inch plugs with multiple trebles while drifting for walleye and managed to release them at the boat but if I was going to target them with a crankbait I'd probably use a smaller one and change the trebles for a single hook. Any rig that isn't a death rig is good, and saying artificials or flies or worms the size of pencils isn't ethical is debatable at least. Is the hair rig unsporting? Or fishing in tiny artificial lakes stocked with non-native fish just so you can feel something on the line? Doesn't bother me, I've shot fish in a barrel and it's fine sport. [emoji6]

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When the trout lakes needed emptying of trout round my way, the farmers would ask coarse anglers to do it; what did they use as bait I wonder? clue - it wasn't imitation flies.

 

Bishops Bowl was one such place if I remember correctly.

A lot of the Carp lakes in the west country still have the Trout in them i believe .

Think i remember Grangemilky mentioning it ..

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I have always understood that Fly fishing was invented because Trout are so easy to catch on other methods ,ie Bait.

 

Having fished the River Test here in Hampshire many times ,I can say that trout are a pain in the backside when trying to catch coarse fish

Edited by salokcinnodrog
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I have always understood that Fly fishing was invented because Trout are so easy to catch on other methods ,ie Bait.

 

Having fished the River Test here in Hampshire many times ,I can say that trout are a pain in the backside when trying to catch coarse fish

Or was fly fishing invented because they were so difficult to catch on standard baits when they were munching on caddis grubs and fly hatches?

 

The toffs got hold of it and called it their own, having and more expensive rod licence and having to pay for fish caught and exclusive rights to stretches of river?

 

Fly fishing is on the decline now because so many plebs took it up.

 

So if fish gets his way, 'Carp Fishing' will go the same way.

 

But let's be honest now, with what looked to the o/p to be a good point, he has created a 5 page (so far) discussion on a non argument - he should be voted in at the next election, so long as you don't want to zig, float, floater, pop-up, fake bait, spear, bow, net fish anymore we'll be ok; how he proposes us to land fish without nets I don't know, mayhaps ground them on bull rushes?

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