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Miltz308

Getting bites but not hooking?!

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I've found snowmen can lay funnily so I always check and trim / change if needed.

 

I can second this, i find this happens more when the bait has something like a piece of fake sweetcorn on top, people think it makes the bait sit up from my findings it kicks out at an angle. 10mm avid highlites are great for snowmen be warned there very buoyant though

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Thanks for all the replies guys. I'm taking all this info on board!!

 

I was using a single boilie when the problem on this post occurred, however I did try a snowman and had the same problem.

 

I will try and experiment with all your ideas guys! Thanks very much for the help :)

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Always Dr NM :)

 

I agree in the baiting rather than rig could be the culprit.

 

Can you expand on what you base lengthening or shortening the hair / hook length?

Hi Ian , i stole the theory off our Nick originally :)

I tend to start off with long hairs and seem to get a good % of decent hookholds but if its a bit off centre or in the scissors i shorten it a tad but if that doesnt work then i try lengthening even more

 

It really is trial & error , continually getting runs but failing to connect i sometimes put it down to small fish with smaller mouths and try shortening quite considerably .

Which has been known to work too .

 

Having fished the same lake (till this season) for a long time has taught me that ( i think ) most of the fish feed in a similar fashion so i just stick to the inch gap and tend to avoid these scenarios now.

 

When i get to fish my new water regularly i expect i'll have to start from scratch .

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Plenty of good points in the thread, so I'll add my tuppence worth, probably going over some;

 

I look at my hook holds, lost fish and play with hair length accordingly.

A fish hooked at the very edge of the lip, or lost during playing, (especially early in the fight), I usually lengthen the hair. The bait is not usually being taken comfortably enough to 'pull' the hook far enough into the mouth to get a good hook-up.

 

A fish hooked deeply, or the hook has scratched down the mouth from deep, the hair is usually too long.

 

If the hook is dead centre of the bottom lip, perfectly hooked, perfect hair length.

 

How or even what you feed can or could change the hooking potential, a large bed of groundbait or particles means if they are feeding comfortably you can shorten the hair (and/or rig) length.

 

Your lead arrangement can also give you some different possibilities, semi-fixed leads may possibly give you worse hookholds than a running lead; not always, but tight lines and wary fish who are used to dealing with rigs in a very similar scenario can mean they can deal with the hook. Lead clips are not always the answer. Run rings sometimes are!

 

Also small fish can disrupt what you think. If small fish are a pain, not just silvers, but smaller carp, you may find that with longer hairs the bait can be taken back and they are munching on the bait without the hook even going into the mouth. If it is silver fish, then stop feeding so much loose groundbait, or small particle, stop attracting them. If it is smaller carp, but with the chance of a larger fish, then think about a sliding or extending hair, which was actually one of the first developments from the original hair rig. The other was the D rig!

 

A snowman with a single piece of fake corn as the topper :lol: :lol:

It likely actually takes 4or5 pieces of fake corn to neutralise balance on a hook, so to add a boilie as said, however it lies, may well be on the tilt, or as local dialect, it's on the huh!

 

Strangely I have never had a fish take a snowman bait when I have used an individual piece of corn as the topper bait over a boilie. Change to a pop-up over the same bottom bait, I'd lose count of the fish I have caught on it.

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It can be a bit of a pain shortening hairs so i tend to have 3 or 4 tied up just in case , its not as if i have no spare tme when im on the bank :)

 

I can do the same for longer hairs as well , its no real hardship but a lazy boys solution could be the Korda (and other companies) extenda stops ?

 

Keep em coming Sam matey :)

Edited by newmarket

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Hi Newmarket 

 

Just for Sams' benefit - yeah , who am  I kidding it's for mine :wink:  .

 

Your hair NM is tied with a Knotless Knot ( no KD ) ? .

The hair leaves the shank of the hook opposite the point ? .

Then if you hold the hook-length up so the boilie dangles below the hook ,  the 1" measurement you mention is taken from the hook bend to the top of the dangling boilie ? .

Ta .

:wink:  

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Ok I think I'll take the 'keep a few made up' advice from Dr NM :wink:!

 

Btw thanks guys for all these answers. I think this is potentially the most helpful form I've been on!!

 

And, just to fulfil your request NM, what is the best way to sharpen hooks? A lot of people have mentioned sharpening the hooks beyond how they come straight out of the pack. Can anybody give me some pointers as to the best tools to use?

 

Thanks again :wink:

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And, just to fulfil your request NM, what is the best way to sharpen hooks? A lot of people have mentioned sharpening the hooks beyond how they come straight out of the pack. Can anybody give me some pointers as to the best tools to use?

 

 

 

 

Have a watch of this, super sharp!

 

Edited by Addicted_Carper

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Another way I lengthen the hair is a piece of dental floss threaded though the hair loop. Thread the bait on then tie off with a bait stop.

I do exactly this, with dental floss, or even mono,and it can also be used as a way of turning a standard bottom bait rig into a snowman set-up as well.

 

Bearing in mind I very rarely use bait stops, and nearly always currently fish with snowman baits.

 

Tie a uni knot loop in the dental floss or mono, and then put your pop-up in that loop and pull the loop tight. Then after you gave put your standard bottom bait on the normal hair, With your two tag ends of the extra bit, tie a reef or double granny knot through the end of the loop, and make sure that is pulled tight. Then, very carefully, to prevent the granny/reef knot pulling free, lighter blob the two tag ends.

The pop-up acts as both a bait stop, and also gives you the required buoyancy, et voila snowman

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Hi Newmarket

 

Just for Sams' benefit - yeah , who am I kidding it's for mine :wink: .

 

Your hair NM is tied with a Knotless Knot ( no KD ) ? .

The hair leaves the shank of the hook opposite the point ? .

Then if you hold the hook-length up so the boilie dangles below the hook , the 1" measurement you mention is taken from the hook bend to the top of the dangling boilie ? .

Ta .

:wink:

Yes mate thats how a gauge my "inch" :)

 

I've been known to use a KD , its only a Kk with the hair lifted after 3 or 4 turns and the kk completed underneath the hair so that the hair kicks out at an angle .

A drilled/corked bottom bait or a shot-on-the -hair pop up . Kenny Dorsett used it to best effect with a critically balanced bait i believe.

 

Im a weirdo mate , i've been known to fish a bottom baited Choddy at times :wink:

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If there's nice green grass growing in your swim just thread a blade through the loop and tie a double knot and trim the ends, worked for years before I knew what a bait stop was.

2004:

Saskcarp: They'll be shy of the grass, won't they?

Buzzbomb: They eat grass.

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I'm yet to work out what a choddy is! Lol! 

 

Oh god he's mentioned the C word  :lol:  :lol:

 

To save a lot of typing I will hand you over to the Thinking Tackle boys for an explaination

 

 

I don't use chod's myself more to the fact the waters i fish don't really have the requirement to but i am playing around with its rig cousin the stiff hinge rig

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It's a completely safe rig. You don't need to drop the lead.

 

Used in the right situation it can bring rich rewards.

 

You need to make sure that you use a system which ensures the rig can be easily ejected in the event of a crack off.

 

It's great used with lead core (Provided you are competent with using leadcore and your waters allow it :wink: )

Edited by dalthegooner

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Tim,

I know you have problems with some knot tying, and remembered my other post below, I noticed something I do when making the hair and hair loop, which may be of some use to you:

 

When you tie the Uni knot loop at the end, have your little finger of the hand holding the line go through the loop as you make the turns with your other hand. Keep it in their until you tighten up.

 

 

 

It can be a bit of a pain shortening hairs so i tend to have 3 or 4 tied up just in case , its not as if i have no spare tme when im on the bank :)

I can do the same for longer hairs as well , its no real hardship but a lazy boys solution could be the Korda (and other companies) extenda stops ?

Keep em coming Sam matey :)

  

Another way I lengthen the hair is a piece of dental floss threaded though the hair loop. Thread the bait on then tie off with a bait stop.

  

I do exactly this, with dental floss, or even mono,and it can also be used as a way of turning a standard bottom bait rig into a snowman set-up as well.

Bearing in mind I very rarely use bait stops, and nearly always currently fish with snowman baits.

Tie a uni knot loop in the dental floss or mono, and then put your pop-up in that loop and pull the loop tight. Then after you gave put your standard bottom bait on the normal hair, With your two tag ends of the extra bit, tie a reef or double granny knot through the end of the loop, and make sure that is pulled tight. Then, very carefully, to prevent the granny/reef knot pulling free, lighter blob the two tag ends.

The pop-up acts as both a bait stop, and also gives you the required buoyancy, et voila snowman

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Ok so, experiment with hair length

 

Is there any way to change the length without taking the hook off? I'm using a knotless knot obviously - forgive me if it is as simple as listening the line on the hook and sliding it

 

Thanks - Sam!

shortening%20the%20hair.png

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I didn't type that in plain English. Oooops....

 

What it should read is - tie the tape behind the neck end of the lead - not neck end of swivel.

Basically - lead is touching the buffer bead - 2/3 inches past the swivel have a bead. Tie the tape up and past the bead starting from the neck end of lead.

Feel free to doubt if it works.

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That is where you have been going wrong all these years.

It was Peter and Andrew that were the fishermen.

Jesus was a fisher-of-men. Big difference. :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

They didn't even have their nets over the correct side of the boat - needed a carpenter to tell them how to do it.

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