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snoozer

How long do you try a bait for ?

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I have a sneaky suspicion i'm not giving any one particular bait enough time to reap any results before i try the next "Catch anywhere, Anytime" offered by bait companies.

 

I gave this some thought earlier today when asked which bait i used in the summer and what would i swop over to for the winter ?

When i started to answer i was using whatever was my latest puker bait i just brought of the Tinterweb and winter will be the same only sweet and some Maggotts thrown in he frowned and explained he tended to use only 1 bait throughout the summer and switch for the winter and then remained on that bait for the winter.

 

As an example i got some Nash The Key and caught 3 carp on it the first time out, Blanked the second time and haven't used it since.

 

My Question simply is what do you do regarding this area of fishing ?

 

Stick to 1 or 2 baits predominantly or swop about in a random fashion hoping to catch sooner or later as i seem to do.

 

I think with me there's to many baits out there for me to stick with one for more than a couple of sessions ! I think i think i will miss out on a better bait should i actually discover it lol

Kids in a sweet shop springs to mind :)

 

I can see a benefit of staying on 1 bait in that you can buy bulk and save some money whereas i tend to stick to 1kg buys at top rrp :(

 

What's your views peeps ???

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I have a sneaky suspicion i'm not giving any one particular bait enough time to reap any results before i try the next "Catch anywhere, Anytime" offered by bait companies.

 

I have said for some time the bait business is becoming dirty than companies pushing items of end tackle that you don't really need.

 

 

 

My Question simply is what do you do regarding this area of fishing ?

 

I would look at the waters you fish the type and to a certain percent smell (confidence is king, the smell might do anything scientifically but if you like the smell of the bait you feel more confident), are you on a campaign, are you fishing 1 water 1 week 1 the next etc ... ,  look at the long term success of a bait (not the glossy gallery they sell you), examples being CC Moore Odyssey XXX, Essential B5, Nutrabaits Trigga these have all been banking fish for well over 10 years from waters all over the country so must be a good bait.  Try and find out what the going bait is on your waters, this may give you a clue as to what type of boilies the fish prefer (some waters don't responded to fishmeals)

 

 

I think with me there's to many baits out there for me to stick with one for more than a couple of sessions ! I think i think i will miss out on a better bait should i actually discover it lol

Kids in a sweet shop springs to mind  :)

 

Advanced marketing to empty your wallet quicker 

 

 

I can see a benefit of staying on 1 bait in that you can buy bulk and save some money whereas i tend to stick to 1kg buys at top rrp  :(

 

Find a bait that 1. YOU are happy with and 2. Has a proven track record, ask around there are loads of members here that have confidence in all variety of baits 

 

 

 

What's your views peeps ???

 

You already have them above  :lol: a question is not a silly one if you don't know the answers  :)

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Pick one and stick with it is my opinion.

The 3 Boilies mentioned by Hutch above will all catch Carp anywhere .

I've only ever used 3 Boilies .

Xxx

B5

Premier's Matrix .

 

And I'd never look any further .

Edited by newmarket

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I change baits from session to session.

Also I will always take at least 3 or 4 different baits with me unless I'm only doing a couple of hours. 

 

Im not saying this is right or wrong but I am interested what your train of thinking is for doing this  :?:

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Im not saying this is right or wrong but I am interested what your train of thinking is for doing this :?:

Because I have had experiences where carp will switch from one bait to another during sessions , and I like to take a variety of baits to combat this.

Also my fishing is sporadic and I fish different lakes, not just one water so I just go with what I fancy on that session.

If I was concentrating on one particular water then I might go for the one boilie approach.

Edited by muftyboy

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For the people that swap and change, do you just take one out of the bag for hook bait, or do you buy all the matching pots each time? I use 2 baits, same two for a few years now. For each one I have:

Glugged hard hook baits in 18mm, 15mm and 10mm

Pop ups in 15mm and 10mm

Matching flouro pop ups in 15mm and 10mm

Washed out flouro pop ups in 15mm and 10mm

Paste

glug

And some generic toppers which can be used with any bait, but are kind of matched, eg "fruity" or "creamy"

I wouldn't have the cash or space to buy/store all of these for a different bait each session, and although I don't use all of them in each trip they all get used. Gives me as many hook bait/presentation options as I could need, and all matching my main bait. I haven't used one out of the bag for hook bait in a long time.

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For the people that swap and change, do you just take one out of the bag for hook bait, or do you buy all the matching pots each time? I use 2 baits, same two for a few years now. For each one I have:

Glugged hard hook baits in 18mm, 15mm and 10mm

Pop ups in 15mm and 10mm

Matching flouro pop ups in 15mm and 10mm

Washed out flouro pop ups in 15mm and 10mm

Paste

glug

And some generic toppers which can be used with any bait, but are kind of matched, eg "fruity" or "creamy"

I wouldn't have the cash or space to buy/store all of these for a different bait each session, and although I don't use all of them in each trip they all get used. Gives me as many hook bait/presentation options as I could need, and all matching my main bait. I haven't used one out of the bag for hook bait in a long time.

Boilie would only be one of my baits,I will also take chickpeas, some flavoured some unflavoured,meat, bread , cockles in the colder months,sometimes I will take 2 different Boilie , depending on where and how long I am fishing for.

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I have said for some time the bait business is becoming dirty than companies pushing items of end tackle that you don't really need.

 

 

I would look at the waters you fish the type and to a certain percent smell (confidence is king, the smell might do anything scientifically but if you like the smell of the bait you feel more confident), are you on a campaign, are you fishing 1 water 1 week 1 the next etc ... ,  look at the long term success of a bait (not the glossy gallery they sell you), examples being CC Moore Odyssey XXX, Essential B5, Nutrabaits Trigga these have all been banking fish for well over 10 years from waters all over the country so must be a good bait.  Try and find out what the going bait is on your waters, this may give you a clue as to what type of boilies the fish prefer (some waters don't responded to fishmeals)

 

 

Advanced marketing to empty your wallet quicker 

 

 

Find a bait that 1. YOU are happy with and 2. Has a proven track record, ask around there are loads of members here that have confidence in all variety of baits 

 

 

You already have them above  :lol: a question is not a silly one if you don't know the answers  :)

 

Cheers for the answers, I need to injest lol

Pick one and stick with it is my opinion.

The 3 Boilies mentioned by Hutch above will all catch Carp anywhere .

I've only ever used 3 Boilies .

Xxx

B5

Premier's Matrix .

 

And I'd never look any further .

 

Wow, Wish i had that much faith in so few baits or more self control when lured by the corporations :(

 

Also my fishing is sporadic and I fish different lakes, not just one water so I just go with what I fancy on that session.

 

 Thats me right there, rightly or wrongly i'm not alone :)

Edited by snoozer

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I'e put the quotes underneath so as hopefully people won't get lost in this reply.

 

I tend to use one bait for a few years before I change, and at least one of the baits Hutch mentions I had excellent results on for a couple of years; Trigga.

 

I used the shelf life version for a few trips on a local day ticket water (it had produced a few on there so I knew it would work). I had a couple of fish, including the lakes first twenty, and decided to stick with my slightly tweaked version of Trigga when I moved onto Earith Virginia lake. I made sure I prebaited for a couple of weeks before fishing, and put in my leftovers at the end of every weekly session. Over two years I had excellent results, 4blanks over two years, and 2 were when the lake froze over. I lost count of the 20's I caught, and indeed of the fish, but I reckon it was over a hundred with multiple catches a regularity. Bruce Lait who was on the same bait also had the same sort of results, we were in it together.

 

When I went onto Brackens for the first time, again, I stayed on Smokey Mackeral for a couple of years, as much bait as I could put in during and at the end of a session. This same bait also produced on its first use at Merrington, and also on a local water where over a week out fished hi attract baits over time.

I'm certain the results are on the forum.

 

When a new bait came out in the Smokey Bacon, I switched to that and carried on catching, for a few years. I even took it onto the lagoons and carried on catching.

 

The important part of fishing that many forget is there is no secret, a lot of catching comes in confidence; confidence for the fish to feed on your bait, and your confidence in your bait.

 

To give the fish confidence in your bait, prebaiting will help. There is no point in the first time a fish picks up the bait hooking it, as some fish will lose all confidence and refuse to eat it again. If they are happy to eat it, from regular portions, then if they get hooked, they may not be so spooked. Prebaiting will give them confidence to continue to eat the bait, even if they do get hooked.

 

Once the fish have confidence in the bait, then so can you.

You may need pop-ups or wafters to get the right presentation on your lakebed though. Other than that it's normally a bait out of the bag works as well as anything. Nearly All those Trigga fish came on Trigga bottom baits, straight out my bait bag, no specialisations though, and even no rig faffing, the same simple hair rig on bolt and running lead set-ups

 

Changing bait, the additional bits, glugs/soaks, pop-ups, wafters, are trying to rely on the inquisitive factor to some extent. You end up with loads of pots of 'junk', all half finished, and no real results.

To some extent this changing bait has been pushed by the use of spod mixes, pellets, particles and groundbait and any hookbait over the top will work as the fish can't work out what was dangerous. Yet eventually the fish do work out that boilies can result in a trip to the bank. It's then that rigs get played with and is not made easier by fishing day ticket waters as no angler can afford to prebait regularly!

 

I think the only thing Hutch and I disagree on is the nutritional value of Cell, to me it is the added enzymes that make it a nutritional bait that the fish can use, with the use of, I think fermented coconut milk as the attractor to catch anglers. The next bait has the same ingredient list!

 

There are far better baits available nutritionally, which will do the fish more good, but clever marketing has made it everything.

 

 

I have a sneaky suspicion i'm not giving any one particular bait enough time to reap any results before i try the next "Catch anywhere, Anytime" offered by bait companies.

 

I gave this some thought earlier today when asked which bait i used in the summer and what would i swop over to for the winter ?

When i started to answer i was using whatever was my latest puker bait i just brought of the Tinterweb and winter will be the same only sweet and some Maggotts thrown in he frowned and explained he tended to use only 1 bait throughout the summer and switch for the winter and then remained on that bait for the winter.

 

As an example i got some Nash The Key and caught 3 carp on it the first time out, Blanked the second time and haven't used it since.

 

My Question simply is what do you do regarding this area of fishing ?

 

Stick to 1 or 2 baits predominantly or swop about in a random fashion hoping to catch sooner or later as i seem to do.

 

I think with me there's to many baits out there for me to stick with one for more than a couple of sessions ! I think i think i will miss out on a better bait should i actually discover it lol

Kids in a sweet shop springs to mind :)

 

I can see a benefit of staying on 1 bait in that you can buy bulk and save some money whereas i tend to stick to 1kg buys at top rrp :(

 

What's your views peeps ???

  

I have said for some time the bait business is becoming dirty than companies pushing items of end tackle that you don't really need.

 

 

 

I would look at the waters you fish the type and to a certain percent smell (confidence is king, the smell might do anything scientifically but if you like the smell of the bait you feel more confident), are you on a campaign, are you fishing 1 water 1 week 1 the next etc ... ,  look at the long term success of a bait (not the glossy gallery they sell you), examples being CC Moore Odyssey XXX, Essential B5, Nutrabaits Trigga these have all been banking fish for well over 10 years from waters all over the country so must be a good bait.  Try and find out what the going bait is on your waters, this may give you a clue as to what type of boilies the fish prefer (some waters don't responded to fishmeals)

 

 

 

Advanced marketing to empty your wallet quicker 

 

 

 

Find a bait that 1. YOU are happy with and 2. Has a proven track record, ask around there are loads of members here that have confidence in all variety of baits 

 

 

 

You already have them above  :lol: a question is not a silly one if you don't know the answers  :)

  

For the people that swap and change, do you just take one out of the bag for hook bait, or do you buy all the matching pots each time? I use 2 baits, same two for a few years now. For each one I have:

Glugged hard hook baits in 18mm, 15mm and 10mm

Pop ups in 15mm and 10mm

Matching flouro pop ups in 15mm and 10mm

Washed out flouro pop ups in 15mm and 10mm

Paste

glug

And some generic toppers which can be used with any bait, but are kind of matched, eg "fruity" or "creamy"

I wouldn't have the cash or space to buy/store all of these for a different bait each session, and although I don't use all of them in each trip they all get used. Gives me as many hook bait/presentation options as I could need, and all matching my main bait. I haven't used one out of the bag for hook bait in a long time.

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I have so much confidence in the bait im using and have been for the last two years it is the only bait I use , I have not fished a venue that it hasn't caught on .

 

The guy I go fishing with from time to time ,who is able to fish much more than I has had great results on this bait especially on the Match lake at Yatley.

 

I cannot see myself changing anywhen soon ,

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I'm the total opposite, I tend to plan, think and research myself into oblivion. For about the last four years I decide on what bait I want and use that throughout the following year.

 

I couldn't use a bait straight out of the bag as I want to feel as though no one is using a bait the same as me, well when it comes to boilie type baits anyway.

 

I don't trust many of the big bait companies, except possibly ccmoore.

 

I am currently fishing "shop brought" ccm live system and a much smaller company called SAE and using their bacteria b1's. But all hookbaits and freebies will be soaked in my own concoctions and coated again in my own concoctions of various powdery goodies!

 

Having said that I always have at least 4 different pop ups and definitely carry a tin of luncheon meat!

 

As you are with new boilies I can be with different ingredients. But deep down I do believe a carp will eat most baits if it's in the right place and out there in the right way.

 

As was said to me in another post confidence is the main thing and I like what hutch says about smell, if you find a bait that's makes you think oooh that'll catch I believe it will help you to fish better.

 

As you said there is too much choice, do you have any bait that you really like? Could you say have one rod on the same bait and then have another rod to chop and change and see which gets better results or which you "feel" more confident with and go from there?

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I've no preference in bait at the moment and that is probably due to not giving one enough time to give me any lol

 

I need to get a syndicate sorted for 2016 and get on 1 bait for a season, Something i missed out on this year (the syndicate) this would give me more confidance over a presured day ticket water although i still intend on fishing day tickets now and then for a bit of variaty, To many waters and not enough time to fish em all lol

Edited by snoozer

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I think the only thing Hutch and I disagree on is the nutritional value of Cell, to me it is the added enzymes that make it a nutritional bait that the fish can use, with the use of, I think fermented coconut milk as the attractor to catch anglers. The next bait has the same ingredient list!

 

I wouldn't say I disagree as when you posted the recipe i quite clearly got a few things wrong, It would appear that said company is using the same basic base but exploiting 1 key element that would stimulate an investigation (In cell's case some form of enzyme induced breakdown),  The key sign for me would be a bait company that changes its top line brand mixes couple of seasons as they quite clearly know what ever is tricking the fish into taking that bait is only going to work over a shortened period.  There new dissolva hookbaits are again using the enzyme play,  but how many people will they catch out as they give a dissolve time between 4-6 hours so you could have a 2 hour window with no bait on, I am guessing they are playing with something similar to the enzyme compound sold by feedstim which would give you the same effect.

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Changing bait, the additional bits, glugs/soaks, pop-ups, wafters, are trying to rely on the inquisitive factor to some extent. You end up with loads of pots of 'junk', all half finished, and no real results.

 

Couldn't agree with your post more Nick, apart from the quoted bit. I think there are several reasons for wanting a range of alternatives to a boillie out of the bag on your hair. Even if you're not looking for it to look, smell or taste any different to the freebies it is different because it's attached to a relatively heavy hook. Some element of buoyancy is required just to make it act like the freebies and NOT stand out. Also hooking potential. How the bait acts when it's picked up/blown out/reset etc, requires more than just a straight bait. Then you've got presentation on different lake bed types, pop ups, and this is before you even consider adding a visual attractor to your hook bait if that's what you want or what the situation calls for. i get that just looking like a freebie may make the fish less wary of it, but I think you need pretty cute fish for some form of difference between your hook bait and your freebies not to increase your chances.

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Couldn't agree with your post more Nick, apart from the quoted bit. I think there are several reasons for wanting a range of alternatives to a boillie out of the bag on your hair. Even if you're not looking for it to look, smell or taste any different to the freebies it is different because it's attached to a relatively heavy hook. Some element of buoyancy is required just to make it act like the freebies and NOT stand out. Also hooking potential. How the bait acts when it's picked up/blown out/reset etc, requires more than just a straight bait. Then you've got presentation on different lake bed types, pop ups, and this is before you even consider adding a visual attractor to your hook bait if that's what you want or what the situation calls for. i get that just looking like a freebie may make the fish less wary of it, but I think you need pretty cute fish for some form of difference between your hook bait and your freebies not to increase your chances.

No Mate, that is what the hair rig is for :wink:

The bait gets sucked in on a 'proper' hair, and the hook follows it. It is when the bait 'misbehaves' in the throat, as there is no way it can go any further, due to no more hair, or rig, and the carp attempts to eject it that you get your indication and a hook blown into the bottom lip.

The thing at the moment is most anglers are using very short hairs :!: which don't allow bait movement, so the angler plays with the 'extras', the different pop-up, the fake corn, the glug.

 

On Earith, as I said, I had one fish on a pop-up. Every other fish was caught on a bait straight out the bag, and put on a hair around 20mm from shank to boilie. This was fished on gravel or on silt!

Taverham Mills I was using a plain straight hair rig, with the fish confident in my baits. Again no pop-ups, because the fish were eating the bait because there was so much going in due to regular pre-baiting. This was on gravel, in weed or silt.

 

One of my blank sessions on Earith was when I lost a couple of fish, on shorter hairs. The bait was not taken in far enough (I believe), and I lost a couple of fish to hook pulls. Since then I have lost few fish when I worked out that the hair length is probably the most important part of your rig, not whether it is KD, Blowback, or whatever.

Stiff hairs can also work against you, they don't allow hair and bait movement.

 

Don't believe everything you hear about blowback rigs, most don't reset themselves without some form of buoyancy, which to my mind makes them another fashion rig. They will work with a pop-up, because the pop-up will 'pull itself' back up the shank towards the bend, but with a bottom bait if taken and blown out more likely the bait will mask the hook being taken in in a hook able manner

In fact rigs are probably more important when you use pop-ups, than with bottom baits!

 

I don't believe the visual aspect is most important, and I have tried using plastic corn as a tipper on bottom baits, with actually decreased results than my standard bottom bait.

 

The most important thing is having the fish eating your bait confidently. If they do that then the hookbait is just another food item, which is 'oops I missed that one' and will pick it up with minimal inspection, no sucking and blowing, no need for additional buoyancy to try to negate the weight of the hook.

 

As it happens, you are looking at around 2 or 3 pieces of fake corn to counter the weight of the hook (ask Rob Hughes), and 5 to counter a bottom bait!

 

It is in fact very rare for me to use an individual pop-up, if I do, it is to sit above bottom debris (leaves). I will fish a bottom bait in silt, that is where carp feed

 

As it happens, on The Lagoons, I do use a pop-up tipper, normally a Garlic Squid pop-up, (latest play) but this is to some extent to counter crayfish, get a quick take, before the darn crays munch it, and if they don't eat it, the bait soak gets washed out and the pop-up is the same or as close to my bottom baits as I can get.

So I'm on a Snowman set-up. The pop-up does sit on top of the bottom bait. Yet if I fish it on a shorter hair, the snowman leans over at an angle.

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Thinking about hair length is pretty new to me. In all honesty from what you're saying I think I usually use a very short hair. Not much more than 5mm from the ring/tubing/point where the hair leaves the hook to the bait. Lots to think about, thanks.

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Thinking about hair length is pretty new to me. In all honesty from what you're saying I think I usually use a very short hair. Not much more than 5mm from the ring/tubing/point where the hair leaves the hook to the bait. Lots to think about, thanks.

Adam,

I think that part of your thinking comes from magazine articles where very few writers actually get onto one bait long term now. Much more is written about rigs than bait, because most writers are rig anglers selling tackle for their sponsors, not bait writers if that makes sense.

 

On the odd occasion that I do pick up a magazine there are very few bait articles, compared to rig articles. This may be a Total Carp and Advanced Carp Fishing phenomenon, but I somehow think it is all over the media.

 

The only bait articles are 'what spod mix', not about a long term food source bait!

 

I'm sure Hutch can quantify my comments with his own results, but my best results have always come when I have fished with one bait, for more than one season, regular prebaiting on one water. With my bait going in regularly (and me watching the fish eat it!), I have no need to worry whether my rigs work. The only thing I then need to look at, I have mentioned before recently on another thread, is the length of the hair, and where I am hooking the fish.

 

Saying that, I also want that same bait to work should I go on a one-off trip elsewhere, so I want an attractive, nutritious foodbait.

 

In the end, usually the thing that causes me to change bait, is that I get bored of using the same smelling bait for two seasons, so want a change for myself, not necessarily for the fish. However, if I can it is a flavour change, not a whole base mix change :wink:

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Thinking about hair length is pretty new to me. In all honesty from what you're saying I think I usually use a very short hair. Not much more than 5mm from the ring/tubing/point where the hair leaves the hook to the bait. Lots to think about, thanks.

I'm the opposite, always use a long hair myself,it comes from watching the Korda underwater videos,seeing how far the carp suck the bait in made me change

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Thinking about hair length is pretty new to me. In all honesty from what you're saying I think I usually use a very short hair. Not much more than 5mm from the ring/tubing/point where the hair leaves the hook to the bait. Lots to think about, thanks.

Adam,

Have a read of this:

http://www.carp.com/topic/21751-hooks/?hl=%2Bhair+%2Blength#entry268722

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Changing bait, the additional bits, glugs/soaks, pop-ups, wafters, are trying to rely on the inquisitive factor to some extent. You end up with loads of pots of 'junk', all half finished, and no real results.

 

http://www.carp.com/topic/21753-pop-up-and-soaked-bait-collection/

 

I'll just leave this here. :wink::D:wink::D

 

(Sorry Nick! Couldn't help it mate.) :):wink:

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http://www.carp.com/topic/21753-pop-up-and-soaked-bait-collection/

I'll just leave this here. :wink::D:wink::D

(Sorry Nick! Couldn't help it mate.) :):wink:

Most of them are soaking in the Seafood Takeaway Liquid :wink:.

They are particularly to match my bottom bait freebies, although the Garlic ones were in the hope that crayfish would leave them alone. It doesn't work!

 

I did also notice a pot of bright red pop-ups, which are soaking in Predator liquid oil soak. These are for attaching to my deadbaits when pike fishing!

 

Your hook hold question should be answered on the link I put up. It goes to the 'hooks' thread, where I explain hookhold positions and adjusting the hair to suit.

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snoozer in answer to your original question unless you are putting in a lot of bait , a k or 2 now and again isn,t enough, then i'd use high attract instant boilies.i know people who put in upto 30k a week when trying to establish a new bait as a food source .

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