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Chod Rig and Bite Indication


salokcinnodrog
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I have been saying for years that bite indication with a Chod rig can be pretty awful, this is what Rob Hughes says about it.

 

http://www.carpology.net/articles/rigs/do-chod-rigs-really-offer-better-indication

 

Like him, I've said it needs to be fished with a tight line!

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If your going to fish a Choddy on a tight line then you might as well fish a zig as the pop up won't be on the bottom and at least you know how long the zig is .

Hughes swears by tight lines in nearly all his articles and they are just plugging Fox tackle items as well . In this case their Chod beads.

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For me, i find the whole tight line vs slack line very misleading due to the subjective nature of any different situation. When fishing a chod, i try to slacken the line off, so it has enough to sink right to the bottom, but the problem with that is the undertow starts to put a big arch in the line, so i tighten the line up as much as i can with out lifting too much up and leaving it looking like a tension cable, that's pretty much the same for any rig.

Saying that, the undertow on Kingsbury is very strong, due to the shallow depth of the lakes, they use 4-5 oz leads on Swan pool and fish the line bow-string tight, otherwise the undertow will wipe you out.  

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Your not convince me you should fish a chod on a tight line . Even reading the little article that Nick put a link to in carpology. It states he fishes the line ad tight as he feels he can get away with , guarantee that air's on the side of caution to make sure the chod is fishing correctly as is far from being a tight line .

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I have seen fish take the bait on a Chod and move a long way on a slack line, especially when moving towards the angler. It is not until the lead moves that you get indication of a take, and if the line is slack, you can't get a drop back.

 

If the fish moves away from the angler taking the lead with it then you get decent indication.

 

Also with a slack line, (and any semi-fixed lead) you miss many indications, which could lead to the fish managing to eject the hook.

you can say you've always had ripping takes, but how many have you missed that didn't take line?

 

The point about subjective nature of the bottom forgets that at any range above about 40 metres, even with a tight line, the line will be laying pretty much on the lakebed anyway. It arcs down, unless the lake has a series of gravel bars between you and the bait, when the line will touch the top of a bar, then be tight to say the next bar.

If there are no bars, the line will arc down then stay laying on the lakebed from that point. The rig and buoyant hookbait will then still be raised up off the lakebed as expected.

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Well when I'm fishing I always tighten up to the lead anyway before I slacken off so does that constitute a tight line whilst Chodding ?

 

Although I always use what I consider to be a slack line , I am aware of the possibility of what the consequences could be with TOO MUCH slackicity . Is that a word ? Lol

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I have seen fish take the bait on a Chod and move a long way on a slack line, especially when moving towards the angler. It is not until the lead moves that you get indication of a take, and if the line is slack, you can't get a drop back.

If the fish moves away from the angler taking the lead with it then you get decent indication.

Also with a slack line, (and any semi-fixed lead) you miss many indications, which could lead to the fish managing to eject the hook.

you can say you've always had ripping takes, but how many have you missed that didn't take line?

The point about subjective nature of the bottom forgets that at any range above about 40 metres, even with a tight line, the line will be laying pretty much on the lakebed anyway. It arcs down, unless the lake has a series of gravel bars between you and the bait, when the line will touch the top of a bar, then be tight to say the next bar.

If there are no bars, the line will arc down then stay laying on the lakebed from that point. The rig and buoyant hookbait will then still be raised up off the lakebed as expected.

why does Rob Hughes mention that he tightens down as much as he thinks he can get away with ? Surely by saying this he admits him self, that there will be a point that the chod won't be fishing correctly .... ie on a tight line .
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why does Rob Hughes mention that he tightens down as much as he thinks he can get away with ? Surely by saying this he admits him self, that there will be a point that the chod won't be fishing correctly .... ie on a tight line .

But surely by fishing it slack, when there is reduced indication it is not fishing effectively or correctly anyway.

 

Consider that line arc down to the lakebed on a tight line, it is fishing correctly then.

It won't fish effectively at short range either, loss of indication or a high tight line, unless you fish it with the rig close to the lead.

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Are there any videos of these tests? I've tried to search and can't find any. The reason I ask is that I would expect they haven't been completed where a chod rig should be used.

 

Any tests I have seen, have been on relatively clean bottoms, where what he says makes sense.

 

Doing such tests in heavy weed would be quite dangerous in case you get tangled and trying to do tests in thick silt would be pretty difficult. I've dived in caves with thick silt and any disturbance results in great plumes of sediment that reduce visibility to zero. A lead plugged in deep silt would likely have a higher effective weight and line going into a weed bed, would also behave quite differently.

 

I think what you can take from his tests, is that fishing on a clean bottom or in silk weed with a helicopter set up, you're better with tension in the line for indication but as for when you're fishing a chod where it's most effective I don't think he's really answered anything.

Edited by androoooo
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Are there any videos of these tests? I've tried to search and can't find any. The reason I ask is that I would expect they haven't been completed where a chod rig should be used.

Any tests I have seen, have been on relatively clean bottoms, where what he says makes sense.

Doing such tests in heavy weed would be quite dangerous in case you get tangled and trying to do tests in thick silt would be pretty difficult. I've dived in caves with thick silt and any disturbance results in great plumes of sediment that reduce visibility to zero. A lead plugged in deep silt would likely have a higher effective weight and line going into a weed bed, would also behave quite differently.

I think what you can take from his tests, is that fishing on a clean bottom or in silk weed with a helicopter set up, you're better with tension in the line for indication but as for when you're fishing a chod where it's most effective I don't think he's really answered anything.

Probably the best word of mouth answer to the Chod rig, or Helicopter set-up is by Tim Paisley in one of his books, either Big Carp, or To Catch a Carp. I seem to recall he was fishing a silty mere, with Helicopter set-ups, and wrote about some of his experiences with the bomb on the end of the line, including some of the fish losses, hooks straightening, line fractures and dropped fish, as well as captures.

 

When I was using Helicopter rigs with leadcore flyline, (not the current braided stuff), I experienced fish losses, lack of indication on takes and hook pulls. Especially strange to get hook pulls on the pattern of hook I was using as well, Piggybacks, basically a long curved shank similar to the Fox Series 5.

To drop the leadcore I experienced fish losses with the ring swivel chafing through the mainline.

 

The main problem with NOT using a helicopter set-up was the distances I was casting, the lead pulls everything tidily behind it, and the leadcore and leader meant I could cast (then) absolute distances tangle free.

 

I have really looked at line arcs from the rod tip to the lakebed, no matter what you do with a tight line, it WILL drop from rod tip to lakebed, then run along the bottom to the end tackle. Fishing a slack line at range with such semi-fixed leads gives absolutely NO benefits at all. It does reduce indication, you need as tight a line as you can get.

 

Add to that, what you often think is a hard gravel bottom is very rarely that; there is often a layer of silt over the top of it. Not all gravel patches are gravel patches, but are gravel, with silt on top! Ian Poole got caught out by that in Carpology Underwater series.

The lead had sunk into it, although his hookbait on a pendant set-up just happened to be positioned right, and I think he had a fish. He had checked the bottom with a marker float, and felt hard gravel. The soft 'liquid' silt didn't register!

 

I'm now wondering how many Chod caught fish are fish caught midwater, almost zig rig fishing, basically a long paternoster.

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I'm now wondering how many Chod caught fish are fish caught midwater, almost zig rig fishing, basically a long paternoster.

On a tight line yes of course . That's why most people fish Choddies on a slack or slack-ish line.

Exactly where in mid water would , of course , depend on where the top bead is on your mainline/leader .

 

Nick have you actually been in the lake to confirm that the line at the rig end is definitely running along the bottom with a tight line every time ?

 

I've only ever had screaming takes on slack lined choddies . And when I say slack line I probably mean semi-slack as I always tighten up to the lead before I slacken off to ensure its not TOO slack as I can see your point about indication problems and have had problems myself with that scenario (bream).

It takes about 20-30 mins to ensure line is sunk properly but I've never had anything but Terriffic indication with Chod Rigs.

 

Now IF you are correct and chod rig "victims" are actually caught mid-water then that might explain why the set up has been so devastating over the last few years , remembering Kevin Nash's opinion that carp spend 90% of their time OFF the bottom.

 

Though I'm not doubting what you say Nick , I find it difficult to believe as I feel this is the first thing Rob Hughes would have picked up on all those years ago at the beginning of his Carpology underwater testings.

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Strangely enough I have been in the water to find it out.

 

On Taverham in a few swims when we could put baits out by boat, or in a couple of places by hand and wading.

 

The Plateau swim was a favourite at one point, and a cast (or put in with a dinghy) from the right hand side of the swim to the far side of the plateau would see the line and tubing touching down on the gravel, the line dropping in an arc, even though it was a tight line and a maximum of 45metres.

Another one we found it was from Cowtail point, where a small gulley ran along the gravel bar. This one was tested intentionally as the gulley was the carps approach route onto the bar.

We waded out to see where the line was, and with a tight line which we followed down by hand contact actually came into touch the bar. We thought the hand contact would stop us touching the line with our feet, instead we found we didn't have to step over it as it was already on the lakebed.

 

From Number 27 or Cowtail Corner a cast onto the corner of the island the line would actually be running along the gravel long before the end tackle was reached right on the corner of the island shelf.

 

Admittedly these were shallow swims, but all were at ranges of 40metres plus.

 

There was another swim, to the left of the plateau, where the cast to make was underneath the far bank of the channel. The rods were high as the swim itself was at the top of a high bank, yet even with that, the line touched down long before the far bank.

 

I have also been sad enough to set up my rods on banksticks on a field, and cast out, then tighten the line up as much as possible to the lead, no matter what, it arcs down as per telegraph or electricity wires from pylon to pylon, where the wire drops to the middle, even though taut.

Ok, in air the line may well behave differently to that in water, but even there it happens. Unless you can get it so tight, no line stretch or line already stretched to maximum, the line does arc down from the rod tip, even with braid eventually it happens, but you can get tighter.

If you look at your lines from the rod tip side on, you can see this droop.

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Its definitely possible to have the chod rig sitting up of the bottom on a slack line, i know i had it out 24 hours before a trip out in the boat, no bars but the spot was down in a drop off. Anyone whose ever doubted or thought it was fashion to have the rod tips high would have fished the rig as bad i did, if I'd slacken off with the tip as high as possible i reckon the rig would have been sitting fine, but the line touching down first on the high side causes too much friction for the rig side to settle...higher tip ,greater angle , more chance to sit right!!

 

When me and my mate first started use or thinking about using the chod he mentioned that he thought that just casting out and not feeling down the lead then pulling back slightly was the way, it made sense to me , if the rig was meant for weed a tight line would pull the rig down into it,with a balanced bait there would be no chance for it to rise....any way back when NVC  was running  i asked Nicks buddy  :D  :P  :wink:  he totally mis-understood my question about whether to feel the lead down ( i said feather the cast ,doh...like it means something different  :roll: ) any way he said he always feels the lead down.... now to me that was pointless, not that my rig was 8ft or so away from the lead but even 3ft  away how could i or he be sure what the lead hits is where the rig is over ????

 

I have however caught on all ways to fish it, tight ,slack, felt down and not. ...........apart from as a zig :wink:

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I always fish as slack as possible when fishing chods with depending what I'm fishing over but if fishing a hard or clear bottom I only put my top bead (sinker) about 15inch from lead so feeling lead down,there's not much difference in fishing any other rig

If I was fishing over 2ft of weed too bead would be 2ft from lead 3ft if weed was 3ft and so on,if line was tight it would pull the rig deep into the weed surely ?

Edited by leggs007
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I always fish as slack as possible when fishing chods with depending what I'm fishing over but if fishing a hard or clear bottom I only put my top bead (sinker) about 15inch from lead so feeling lead down,there's not much difference in fishing any other rig

If I was fishing over 2ft of weed too bead would be 2ft from lead 3ft if weed was 3ft and so on,if line was tight it would pull the rig deep into the weed surely ?

Mick , my first thoughts were that the tighter the line the further up your mainline the chod would be ....to your top bead of course .

 

Like a zig almost .

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  • 1 month later...

I have seen fish take the bait on a Chod and move a long way on a slack line, especially when moving towards the angler. It is not until the lead moves that you get indication of a take, and if the line is slack, you can't get a drop back.

 

If the fish moves away from the angler taking the lead with it then you get decent indication.

 

Also with a slack line, (and any semi-fixed lead) you miss many indications, which could lead to the fish managing to eject the hook.

you can say you've always had ripping takes, but how many have you missed that didn't take line?

 

The point about subjective nature of the bottom forgets that at any range above about 40 metres, even with a tight line, the line will be laying pretty much on the lakebed anyway. It arcs down, unless the lake has a series of gravel bars between you and the bait, when the line will touch the top of a bar, then be tight to say the next bar.

If there are no bars, the line will arc down then stay laying on the lakebed from that point. The rig and buoyant hookbait will then still be raised up off the lakebed as expected.

Interesting Nick ?

http://www.carpology.net/articles/features/is-my-line-really-off-the-bottom-at-distance

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