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Have we forgotten everything we learned


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Replying to that last thread got me thinking. Do we as specimen anglers (and I suppose we all have to class ourselves as that) ignore a lot of the basics we learned as kids?

My thinking for this is as follows

Very few of us work a swim on a tough water as we would on a more prolific one. Whether it be casting out a little bag and sitting on it for hours on end or spodding the granny out of it and waiting for something to come along?

If we are stalking we might find a group of fish, but how often do we feed them and get them competitively searching for food on the bottom, although we naturally do it if we are floater fishing.

How often will we set up in a swim where the tench are rolling because we don't want to get plagued by the red eyed boilie thieves? Even though fish feeding is one of the biggest stimuli to other fish to get them eating?

Obviously some of you might do some of the above, but I think there is something in this going back to basics approach that might get a few more fish on the bank. Your thoughts?

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Replying to that last thread got me thinking. Do we as specimen anglers (and I suppose we all have to class ourselves as that) ignore a lot of the basics we learned as kids?

My thinking for this is as follows

Very few of us work a swim on a tough water as we would on a more prolific one. Whether it be casting out a little bag and sitting on it for hours on end or spodding the granny out of it and waiting for something to come along?

If we are stalking we might find a group of fish, but how often do we feed them and get them competitively searching for food on the bottom, although we naturally do it if we are floater fishing.

How often will we set up in a swim where the tench are rolling because we don't want to get plagued by the red eyed boilie thieves? Even though fish feeding is one of the biggest stimuli to other fish to get them eating?

Obviously some of you might do some of the above, but I think there is something in this going back to basics approach that might get a few more fish on the bank. Your thoughts?

Before I fished solely for carp like many I used to float fish for anything.

Many times I would hook into big carp later in the day after I had been building the swim all day.

My pb for many years was a 19lb carp caught on a size 18 hook with single maggot.

I posted on here last year how my mate taught me a lesson by feeder fishing with worm while I blanked using "proper carp tactics".

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When I fish a local day ticket lake with mates I have a preference to fish a single rod regularly feeding compared to their carp tactics. I will let you guess who catches most, but the carp fishing is often 'inefficient', and the regular feeding usually catches more fish...

 

I'm not just a carp angler, I have been fishing for nigh on 40years, so lessons I learnt on silver fish, tench, bream are all put into carp fishing as well.

When carp fishing I have tried baiting first, casting in and baiting later, and feeding regular and often. You have to decide on a trip by trip basis which will work, and I usually get it wrong :!::wink::lol:

 

Carp angling has become media orientated, spod in, bait up, cast over the top of it, sit, wait and ' blank the weekend away'.

I think we need to go back and learn to fish again!

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Ah, now this is what I was after. I have been pondering this for a while after a few things happened over the last couple of years that made me think maybe the majority had got it wrong.

One was barbel fishing on a notoriously tough stretch on the river lea. Many people were doing several blanks before catching one, some even more than that. Out of boredom I started maggot fishing for the first few hours catching silvers and suchlike, and flicking the barbel baits in after sometimes six hours of tiddler bashing. Now in half a dozen sessions that Autumn I came away with four barbel, and you guessed it, the two I didn't catch on we're the two I had no float set up with me.

Last year whilst blanking again on the big pit nearby, I saw a tench roll close in, so decided to put a bait on it (for a change I had been on fish that morning and had baits positioned where I had seen the carp), put a few spombs of bait on it and see if I could at least get a bite from that. Seven hours later, no sleep, three rods on the spotand five fish later I had caught three carp after a couple of tench. Now that day I had run out of boilies so all I was using were particles and corn, so food the tench could obviously get into feeding on.

Now when I'm barbel fishing, I always trickle bait through the swim, but still no bites, but if it's pellets trickling through, the smaller fish won't eat it and therefore there's less feeding activity in the swim. The same with the tench. If I had fed predominantly fishy boilies, would the same result have happened? Have a lot of the methods we have taken on become too selective, meaning instead of getting the fish active and interested, we are hoping that they pick up a little round ball tastes nice.

Is it better to suffer the attentions of smaller fish and wait until the carp move in? Or is this disturbance going to spook them? Is this a way of turning a blank session around or just a way of getting a sleepless night.

I'd like to know if other people have found similar situations in the past and whether this could be the reason things like the mag aligner were so successful?

Bored yet

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I think it has a lot to do with the type of carp fishing available to you. What you say is absolutely right, but if you're on a carp puddle elbow to elbow with bivvys either side you won't get them competing for your bait, you'll get them moving on to the next patch of salted tuna-chilli hemp. Not my type of fishing but you can see where the watercraft is lost when newcomers to the sport find nothing but these commercial venues that offer less in the way of challenge and more in the way of chance. There's a well known big fish water near me where you actually book your peg when you book your trip!! I mean, how ridiculous is that!! No choice when you get there, no following the fish or the conditions. Even if you could move there's rarely a free swim. And you can only use their bait, and you get a nice swim map showing where to fish to in each swim. No thanks! It's an extreme example but not far off what you get in a lot of commercial day ticket venues. Breeds a lack of water craft skills over just getting a bend. Everyone wants a 40, which would probably be 1 in ten thousand naturally in the UK if left to it. That said they aren't all that bad. Some are well run and present a quality, allbeit a bit man-made environment. Good for a social, and keeps the tough as nails hard to find waters containing stunning natural upper 20s empty at the weekends. :)

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Yes great thread Matt.

 

I consider myself an allrounder and I'm 100% behind the belief that other kinds of fishing help to hone your skills as a specimen angler.

The angler who can work out the best line to trot a float through a river, cast a size 18 Grey Duster to a trout rising under a bush on a tiny brook, hold a whole squid uptide into a fast rip for Rays and Smoothhound, setup a lift float so that you know the moment Tench arrive in the swim, hit a dinner plate with a feeder at 40yds every cast, put a 10# line 30yds into a headwind, work out where the Pike are going to be when the weather changes and so on.... They are the ones who will not only be the most consistently successful (Notwithstanding the "Time Bandits" these days) but will get the most out of their fishing.

 

I have no idea how many UK carp I have caught in the last 2 seasons, but the most memorable capture is of a couple of hard fighting scraper doubles I had in Sep 2014, purely because I rocked up to a lake with a smattering of Carp anglers sat around it, no one was catching and I took these fish off the top on a fly I tied myself within 15 mins just by being quiet, observant and finding a couple cruising around in front of an unfavoured area.

I could have bivvied up and put the kettle on like everyone else.

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With out doubt fishing for other species can help massively in carp fishing I hate seeing really young children holding big carp in mags as I feel they are missing out so much in terms of angling and experiences and having lots of fun on the float and feeder catching tench, bream ect even roach or perch would have given them as much excitement if not more than there first fish been a big carp and after that getting them interested in smaller fish I'd imagine would be difficult and there proberly much less likely to stick at fishing long term it's either laziness on the parents part carnt be botherd to float fish or more likely the parent themselvs wouldn't no ware to begin as they never fished for anythin or fished or anthin other than carp. But seeing these really young kids 10 and under with full carp set ups with there parents proberly bored the majority of the time just makes me think there missing on so so much. Also when I see a six year old with a 20lb carp I don't think that kid must be a child prodigy as I'm sure some of the parents are trying to make it look. I just think the parent pretty much caught it for them and I'd be more impressed if with the child holding bream or tench roach anythin but a carp in there hands. Unless the carp caught by complete accident while fishing for other species than great fair enough but but I just don't agree with getting young children or anybody for that matter straight into carp fishing but young children paticularly shouldn't be be fishing solely for carp imo. It's one of my pet hates.

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its threads like this that points out the need for 'dare i say it' AN APRENTICESHIP!!!

cue the nay sayers :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

tin hat on and ducking NOW!!! :wink:

Trust you to come out with what I've been thinking for 2 days but wouldn't mention due to obvious reasons .....

Blooming trouble maker .

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Having an opinion doesn't make a trouble maker!

I agree that fishing for all species will give a person a better chance of becoming a more successful angler in what ever they target.

I don't really like the word apprentiship though, as it tends to suggest that carp are above all else.

I also know some very good anglers who started out targeting carp. The common denominator in angling is that we all do it because we enjoy it. I love fishing in general, no matter what the target. Except cat fish. I can't stand catfish!!!

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A friend of mine described me as 'professional', compared to his 'amateur' status.

Where on earth he got that idea I don't know :lol: , but apparently it was due to I spent a lot of time fishing, and had caught a few fish, a lot bigger than anything he had caught.

 

He had spent a few years fishing from his seat box, mostly for silver fish, but had spent no or little time carp fishing, he also is unable to drive, and has to rely on lifts and public transport.

After deciding to take the plunge, he bought himself some carp gear, and read and probably confused himself in the world of rigs, bait and everything to go with carp and pike fishing.

 

He joined a local club, and fished the lakes on the complex, catching what was probably one of, or the biggest carp in the lake, a double, and caught nearly every trip, happy man, but wouldn't accept he was not an amateur. He 'forgot' you can only catch what was there. Still convinced he was not very good I took him to Brackens, where on his second trip, he decided to fish his way, fish a feature he had found, and hooked and landed a 25lb mirror. Very happy man!

 

As for his pike fishing, he decided he would like to learn, he'd never caught one intentionally, so I took him to a local day ticket water, where his first fish was an 8lb pike landed on a smelt. That made him smile, would have made his day, but again, he did his things his way, and dropped a smelt under an overhanging tree, and landed a 22lb fish, and felt guilty because it was larger than my pb. Now that doesn't make him a good angler, but from that he decided to keep on pike fishing the winter, so I carried on taking him to a local lake, where he caught a number of fish, from singles to doubles, learnt to unhook them himself, and enjoyed his fishing.

He was also there when I managed to land a new pb just a few ounces larger than his and the weight call was his. The smile on his face when I landed it has to be seen to be believed, and I know how large mine was.

 

Now my point of this tale is, he has served an apprenticeship, there are still blanks, to him and me, he enjoys fishing for the species he can. He is not a mobile angler, a bad back condition sees to that, so he has to fish a static approach, and carp and pike work best for him.

 

As an angler I enjoy fishing, for all species, river, lake, float fishing, freelinining, ledgering, or float fishing.

 

I think that 'carp puddles' have to some extent taken away the joy of catching that first ever fish. You blanked a few times, then you caught a perch or a roach, and from that you wanted to catch more. Carp puddles you catch first time and it gets easy, you fish the same every trip, spod mix and a boilie on a KD because Uncle Danny says so.

Then all of a sudden you have caught so many, and want to catch bigger, so have to go somewhere else, but because carp are an 'easy' fish, when the conditions or circumstances are different, you struggle. The new water does not react the same. The carp are not so easy, because stock levels are lower, but because you haven't served a real apprenticeship for other you don't know how to adapt.

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Been reading through the thread. ... can I pose a question?

 

All head back in time to when we were catching under the float etc on those lakes .

Now take it that the lake hasn't changed at all, would you expect to empty it with all that you know now & your modern armoury?

 

That's a very good question Phil, I would have to answer no, I probably did better using my older tackle-

 

This is partly to do with not getting on the bank as much as I used

 

More and more venues have been stocked with carp which in essence has changed the stock and therefore the way you have to fish it, I don't consider myself to be an outright carp angler and don't necessarily target carp - there are exceptions, but these venues have been otherwise spoiled (nothing to do with angling)

 

Angling has changed in the way people in general do it and their motivations for doing it which has changed the way venues behave throughout the season - some of it good (fish are more inclined to feed through the colder periods) some of it bad (increased angling pressure) - busy venues often don't allow you to choose a swim and can often limit methods of fishing effectively

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Been reading through the thread. ... can I pose a question?

All head back in time to when we were catching under the float etc on those lakes .

Now take it that the lake hasn't changed at all, would you expect to empty it with all that you know now & your modern armoury?

I reckon yes, I probably could, but I also reckon on one rod I would be going back to the float, and then ledgering on the other. It would probably result in me catching a lot more tench than I do now.

 

Saying that...

 

However, I do miss some of those older times!

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Been reading through the thread. ... can I pose a question?

 

All head back in time to when we were catching under the float etc on those lakes .

Now take it that the lake hasn't changed at all, would you expect to empty it with all that you know now & your modern armoury?

Taking your question literally I would have to say yes Phil .

However most lakes have changed since I was a kid , which Ian mentioned , with the introduction of Carp .

 

I'm thinking the one rod float fishing tactic may well be veerrrrry successful on some of these big carp day tickets . Vertical lines as opposed to horizontal and all that .....

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I assume you are saying that the stock levels were the same as yesteryear, modern tackle is far superior, but i doubt 95 percent of the guys using this website, me included, would ever have deliberately targetted carp. The other species, Tench and Bream would have been pursued and the odd carp would be hooked on tackle that required a lot of luck and some very carefull handling, do i think you would have hammered these venues, no, but you probably would be more successful with better gear.

When I was a kid Carp were uncatchable . Didn't ya know ? :)

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I assume you are saying that the stock levels were the same as yesteryear, modern tackle is far superior, but i doubt 95 percent of the guys using this website, me included, would ever have deliberately targetted carp. The other species, Tench and Bream would have been pursued and the odd carp would be hooked on tackle that required a lot of luck and some very carefull handling, do i think you would have hammered these venues, no, but you probably would be more successful with better gear.

  

When I was a kid Carp were uncatchable . Didn't ya know ? :)

I was lucky then!

My fishing included my half acre garden pond with some big Rudd (well if you include pound Rudd as big), a local farmers pond of around an acre, also jam packed with Rudd, the River Dove in Eye, around two miles from home, with big dace, gudgeon, roach and an occasional pike caught on a spinner, and a lake fishery over at Thornham Walks that had roach, tench and carp.

As 13year old kids we were targeting the tench, bigger (pound plus) roach and carp to double figures in Thornham Ponds, on bread, and sweetcorn. We often avoided or switched from maggots as we didn't want to catch small roach all day!

By the time I was 16, I had already caught 8lb tench, 10lb carp, 2lb roach, 5lb chub, 7lb bream and double figure pike. I was spoilt rotten with my fishing!

In fact, almost every night after school in the summer I would go fishing, and if I didn't catch a tench of over 5lb I was upset. Weekends I was catching multiple bream and tench captures of big fish, with occasional carp on an Avon or twin tip ledger rod, one tip having a screw in ring for a swing tip. I think the reel was usually a Mitchell 206 or I had a pair of Daiwa 1350 reels as well, although I preferred the Mitchell on the ledger rod, and the Daiwas for the float rod.

 

In fact locally, stock levels are lower locally now than they were then, back in the 1980's, of almost every species, with the exception of Suffolk Water Park, which as a fishery didn't exist back then.

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