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If the fish known as captain jack is being caught every couple of weeks, the lake owner should remove it to a non fishing water such as a stock pond too many reports of fish being hunted to death is not going to go down well with the non angling public, brings a certain amount of credit to the usually nonsense claims that catch and release angling leads to the death of the fish. what happened to Big Rig should of been a one off never to be repeated. 

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4 hours ago, Carpbell_ll said:

If the fish known as captain jack is being caught every couple of weeks, the lake owner should remove it to a non fishing water such as a stock pond too many reports of fish being hunted to death is not going to go down well with the non angling public, brings a certain amount of credit to the usually nonsense claims that catch and release angling leads to the death of the fish. what happened to Big Rig should of been a one off never to be repeated. 

There fish up and down the country get caught just as much as captain Jack. I don't agree with the whole Israeli wronguns been records. But I dont care that much either. It's going to happen so er or later. Big fish are greedy fish and the captain Jack situation is different to the big rig situation. It won' die jst because of angling pressure it will  die young because of the strain of carp it is. The Big plated in st johns gets as much stick as any carp but it' still going.  There' s a fish in a lake I used to fish that'  gets caught 10 times some years then only gets caught twice a year some years. 

As for public opinion they couldn' t care less that otters are ripping them apart most people don't care.

You say there to many reports of fish been hunted death care to give a few examples?

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17 minutes ago, LJC carper said:

There fish up and down the country get caught just as much as captain Jack. I don't agree with the whole Israeli wronguns been records. But I dont care that much either. It's going to happen so er or later. Big fish are greedy fish and the captain Jack situation is different to the big rig situation. It won' die jst because of angling pressure it will  die young because of the strain of carp it is. The Big plated in st johns gets as much stick as any carp but it' still going.  There' s a fish in a lake I used to fish that'  gets caught 10 times some years then only gets caught twice a year some years. 

As for public opinion they couldn' t care less that otters are ripping them apart most people don't care.

You say there to many reports of fish been hunted death care to give a few examples?

I compered it to the Big Rig fish, that being the first that i can recall of angling pressure being put forward as a cause of its death, whether it was or not is will always be up for question. Don't look good either way and you wouldn't want too many of those, but i'm sure many lakes are going to go for these fast growing fish.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, LJC carper said:

There fish up and down the country get caught just as much as captain Jack. I don't agree with the whole Israeli wronguns been records. But I dont care that much either. It's going to happen so er or later. Big fish are greedy fish and the captain Jack situation is different to the big rig situation. It won' die jst because of angling pressure it will  die young because of the strain of carp it is. The Big plated in st johns gets as much stick as any carp but it' still going.  There' s a fish in a lake I used to fish that'  gets caught 10 times some years then only gets caught twice a year some years. 

As for public opinion they couldn' t care less that otters are ripping them apart most people don't care.

You say there to many reports of fish been hunted death care to give a few examples?

 

12 minutes ago, Carpbell_ll said:

I compered it to the Big Rig fish, that being the first that i can recall of angling pressure being put forward as a cause of its death, whether it was or not is will always be up for question. Don't look good either way and you wouldn't want too many of those, but i'm sure many lakes are going to go for these fast growing fish.

 

 

I can think of a few fish that got or get caught fairly regularly, some once in a blue moon, and many twice a year.

How often were Basil, Heather, Grey Tail caught or even Waveney Valleys Big Scale? They had fairly long lives, and I know the Waveney Valley fish was known to come out a couple of times a week on occasion.

 

I think a number of the newer strains of fish are quite short lived, and obviously angling pressure and stress doesn't help their survival at all.

Is the growing on diet responsible? Responsible fish breeders and farmers will use Carp or Coarse pellets, but I know some who fed trout pellets, and their fish were short lived.

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6 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

 

I can think of a few fish that got or get caught fairly regularly, some once in a blue moon, and many twice a year.

How often were Basil, Heather, Grey Tail caught or even Waveney Valleys Big Scale? They had fairly long lives, and I know the Waveney Valley fish was known to come out a couple of times a week on occasion.

 

I think a number of the newer strains of fish are quite short lived, and obviously angling pressure and stress doesn't help their survival at all.

Is the growing on diet responsible? Responsible fish breeders and farmers will use Carp or Coarse pellets, but I know some who fed trout pellets, and their fish were short lived.

The size they are grown to before being put in a fishing lake might be part of the problem, 10/20 lb is plenty big enough for stocking, give them more time to get used to their new environment. 

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Whilst I can see both sides of this debate,and respect both arguments,I have to agree with the previous post there are fish that get caught more than this one.All the ones listed and I believe The Parrot was not an infrequent visitor to the bank.We also have to remember this fish is not a Big Rig,bred in a tank and dumped waiting to be caught,it's streetwise,Yes bred in a pond and released but at thirty whatever pounds a long time ago.Also we can't justify by saying "oh its an import,Israeli or whatever" Dont forger,They are ALL imports carp are not natural to Britain.There just has to be a happy balance between catching big well bred well cared for carp and people that are being greedy and having no interest in the fishes welfare.The way to stop that is for anglers not to fish these types of waters,but hey ho there will always be be the glory hunters that don't care.!!!!

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I totally agree,New fish introduced into the estates was slow and gradual,it wasn't a commercial rush.The fish had generations to acclimatize as there was no monetary incentive o hurry them along,however the worlds not that place anymore,wish it was!!!

 

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I'm not arguing the rights and wrongs of strains. I have my opinion but it's  each to his own. Wouldnt fish for any home fen, avenue or any water of that type. But to make a statement such as fish are been hunted  to death and that captain jack should be moved because its caught regularly you carnt just apply that logic to wronguns and not to other carp up and down the country. The parrot in wasing was caught almost every month and weather there angled l for or not they don't live for ever. Big fast growers live fast die young. I don't like it but it is what is.

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2 minutes ago, LJC carper said:

I'm not arguing the rights and wrongs of strains. I have my opinion but it's  each to his own. Wouldnt fish for any home fen, avenue or any water of that type. But to make a statement such as fish are been hunted  to death and that captain jack should be moved because its caught regularly you carnt just apply that logic to wronguns and not to other carp up and down the country. The parrot in wasing was caught almost every month and weather there angled l for or not they don't live for ever. Big fast growers live fast die young. I don't like it but it is what is.

Agree with it or not, it's the way it is perceived by the claims against catch and release fishing. Don't know how often the parrot was on the bank myself, when it came out at the record weight, it was said to be 6 months since it's last capture.

It's no bother to me personally, as the lakes are a bit pricey. my only concern is the size they are stocked at, i would happily fish for the same fish at other lakes that may stock them in the future, so long as they don't go in at silly sizes. 

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7 hours ago, Carpbell_ll said:

Agree with it or not, it's the way it is perceived by the claims against catch and release fishing. Don't know how often the parrot was on the bank myself, when it came out at the record weight, it was said to be 6 months since it's last capture.

It's no bother to me personally, as the lakes are a bit pricey. my only concern is the size they are stocked at, i would happily fish for the same fish at other lakes that may stock them in the future, so long as they don't go in at silly sizes. 

Yes I agree fish been stocked at 30lb plus is ridiculous but there nothing we can do to change it. All you can do is fish whare your happy and let others do the same.its sad the way things have gone. I used to get to get wound up by wronguns but now Ive took on board the veiw that it doesn' really effect me and that I havnt got the right to tell other people what they enjoy is wrong.

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7 hours ago, Big Common said:

Think we will all have to at some point. The decision to stock these fish is not down to the anglers who are forced to fish for them. Not referring to the Isreal strain, but more the VS, which seem to be fashionable at the moment. Fashions fade, at one point , early nineties, Simmo's were apparently the best fish money could buy. All these new strains will fall by the way side once the next big thing hits the stock ponds...... During which time, whats left of the natural fish, will keep plodding and out living everything else , by sheer wild instinct............. What happens if these newer strains spawn successfully in waters they are put in?..... Not a lot IMO. They will grow to a natural weight that the water can sustain.... So first generation stockies, may get into the big 40's, but I wouldn't be surprised if their off spring hovered around the same weights as the originals that they are replacing, purely down to what their environment can provide. So false economy for venues, as they will end up with fish of similar size as the originals, but that die younger........ The whole thing is just a way of making a few people more wealthy. And of course they will get the public, promotional [censored] lick for producing what is basically a simmo with a few more scales. I'm all for positive progress, but for me, these fish aren't it. Smacks of The Emporers New Clothing........ The day I see a 50 year VS fish with any where near a straight back, then I'll take it all back....... ........ There's nothing like a good old rant. I needed that :)

I agree with alot of that. Don't get the whole VS craze well it's because they got a few scales. Some of them do go on to be nice looking fish like the wraysbury ones. He picking out the very best ones though and putting them in a great enviroment. 

Majority of VS fish though they stand out as been VS fish a mile off even after they been in the lake for years they still look like stockies. A fair few VS fish paticually the ones that go real big  dont look much different to Fenland strain. That said if they keep people away from waters I fish there doing something useful.

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What is stocked though? They were all put in that lake st some point. Even if it was 50yrs ago. They don't count as stocked anymore due to age? 

The fish I was fishing for on a club pit looked as 'natural' as they come but I know when they were stocked. 

I fished a farmers pit and those fish came in via the connection to the Ouse, some were obviously river fish, others obviously escapees from other venues. Does that make them natural or not? 

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As I've said previously,all,carp are stockies.There's just varying degrees,I think we would all agree that the ones we are up in arms about are the "hippos"that are tank bred,pellet fed probably alone,to a huge size and then thrown to the wolves.They have no idea of hunting for food or where to hide up and therefore avoiding anglers and their baits.Fish moving in from flooded rivers and lakes are different that's a natural process,as are fish bred but stocked at reasonable sizes,,should be around ten pounds,in my humble opion,and then allowed to grow on But all the above is just my views.

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So spanner in the works,  let's use horseshoe as an example, it's gonna be filled in so the stock is sold to your lakes.....I'll assume plenty of fish bigger than 30lb in horseshoe.....are you still going to fish your lakes or are you going to be disgusted and never fish the lakes again? 

After all they are stockies now. 

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Yes they were all stocked, but three of them were naturally spawned, no interference from man choosing the brood fish etc.1,3, 5 others selectively bred.

All live in a lake ,but it shows how easy it is to be caught out.

Not all carp in the UK are stockies, a lot are naturally spawned, sometime its many generations since fish were introduced to the waters.

But the sad thing is, unless the original fish were pure mirror, they will revert to common scaling and revert to wild type but stunted.

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3 hours ago, spr1985 said:

So spanner in the works,  let's use horseshoe as an example, it's gonna be filled in so the stock is sold to your lakes.....I'll assume plenty of fish bigger than 30lb in horseshoe.....are you still going to fish your lakes or are you going to be disgusted and never fish the lakes again? 

After all they are stockies now. 

It's not throwing a spanner in the works as it' a situation that isn' going to happen. The lakes I fish wouldn't compete money wise ,alot of the lakes i fish arnt managed at all there only managed by nature thats why i fish them. In the said situation the sort complex that would get them fish would likely be a lake that I wouldn't be fishing In the first place. 

Its also a different situation as old  fish been moved because a lake is been filled in isnt the same as going to a fish farm and buying 30lbers that are 5 or 6 year old.

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21 hours ago, Dogger said:

We also have to remember this fish is not a Big Rig,bred in a tank and dumped waiting to be caught,it's streetwise,Yes bred in a pond and released but at thirty whatever pounds

Imo it is just another big rig. It was imported and fed up to 39 lb before being dumped in the instant big fish water 4 years ago. I hate to breed negativity and have no problem if others want to fish for it but imo its a fake soulless fish for anglers that cant catch a proper one. I realise I'm being out of order there and apologise  but I just can' help having those views.

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@yonny I agree. It's not a real fish. I wouldn't want to fish there at all. I don't believe it in. I think it was sticky or fox that were praising their guy who had caught 5 50s in a week from that place. Sorry but there's no praise there from me. Do that on a nature reserve and I'll get you an OBE!! 

 

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