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cloud9

could be barking up the wrong tree

37 posts in this topic

I have been watching a few youtube videos of carp feeding , its accrued to me that the hook baits used in those videos are tested and rejected by most of the feeding carp , then a chancer takes the bait and off we go ...

 

now looking harder, almost all of the videos I can see the carp happily picking up the freebie particles that's being used as an attractor but clearly shying away from the hook bait that is usually a pop up or a wafter type , now that's got me thinking about how to present particles as a hook bait in a natural way ,

 

 I can't find the post that I read the other day it looks like it has been removed , but it was a photo of what I believe to be a boilie with snails stuck to it ?

 

I would like to know just where to get snails from and also how to stick them to the bait ?

 

my thinking on this is to use a rig with three or four hairs tied to the hook with several particles or the snails attached to these and possibly the hook itself to give a natural presentation within the spread of the freebie bits. and give the carp the confidence to feed on just what they find in the area .

 

any help or thoughts on this will be helpful

 

thanks dave    

    

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It's 50/50 tbh mate. Ive had a pop-up in amongst particle mixes and had a carp every cast, whereas other times ive had nothing, but absolutely destroyed using sweetcorn, in exactly the same locations. So it really depends on the day. As for the pick ups and successful hooks, that is ultimately down to rig mechanics and having the hook set up properly with the bait your using. It's good to experiment and get your snood leaving the hook eye 100% straight, at a near perfect angle to get the hook to kick out and hook the lip on the bait ejection perfect every time. As for snails on pop-ups, I would imagine glue is used, although I've never done this myself. One thing you can do is thread a few hemp seeds to a bit of cotton using a thin sewing needle and attach this to the hair and/or hook. Ive had success with this too.

 

Sent from my HUAWEI G6-L11 using Tapatalk

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The post with snails on the boilie was from me. Not my photo mind, but one off the essential baits web site.

The snails were not stuck to the boilie, they were naturally attracted to it and were feeding on it.

cloud9 likes this

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Cant see the point in making boilies at 13 quid a kilo to attract snails, yep the carp eat the snails, i reckon you would be better off getting the tinned or frozen snails if you want to go down this route, your observations are correct on the particle, it all goes, everybody prebaits for you without putting a hook in any, that is the key, you need to find a big particle, take a look at the fermentation thread, you might get some ideas.

cloud9 likes this

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thanks guys,

xplorer , if you look closely at the videos its almost as if the carp are testing the baits , just feeling with their lips rather than taking the bait in, almost as if they are thinking well that shouldn't be there lets see what it is ,  

thats why Im wondering if its possible to get a load of smaller particles onto the hook so the hook go's straight in no messing ,  

 

 

dave   

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There is one or two major differences with attracting the lakes natural baits to your baited area rather than baiting with the tinned or frozen ones.

They are still alive, they are natural to that particular lake. The tinned or frozen ones are obviously dead and they also may not be a he same as what actually lives in the lake your fishing.

If this makes a difference or provides an edge, who knows?? Worth thinking about though.

yonny likes this

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thanks guys,

xplorer , if you look closely at the videos its almost as if the carp are testing the baits , just feeling with their lips rather than taking the bait in, almost as if they are thinking well that shouldn't be there lets see what it is ,

thats why Im wondering if its possible to get a load of smaller particles onto the hook so the hook go's straight in no messing ,

 

 

dave

A number of years ago on here, we had a discussion on fishing over hemp with a bare hook.

nafy118 likes this

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I have a mate that did well by super-gluing a few bits of fake hemp onto a double hair. Looked a little odd but caught fish.

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You beat me to it Yonny.......

 

Getting back to the thread..... I mentioned sandwiching a freshwater snail between two half boilies. You can collect them from the edge and it works..... The other thing you have to remember is that when these guys do their underwater stuff, they often use a blatant bait for the benefit of the camera.

You could also stick actual hempseed to a cork ball to create a snail like pop up. And Kryston do a product called "bogey" that you can sick all manner of things to.

  Your certainly not barking up the wrong tree. I know quite a few guys that have caught on tricky waters using naturals fished over particles. I also looked into cultivating my own snails based on their results.

I wouldn't worry too much about putting out a carpet feed of shop bought snails, as the resident snails will home in on any ground bait, pellets, broken baits that you put in. But for hookbaits you could "grow your own" or just collect a few.

Try crushing one, ( not for the squeamish) and use two two half boilies to stop it smashing off the hair. Like a lot of gastropods, freshwater snails are sexless. They carry both sperm and eggs. So in theory you could collect a few and leave them in an aquarium/bucket with plenty of weed and let nature do it's thing. I'm sure there is more to it than that with optimum temperature and oxygen, to yield a better crop. Might take a bit of trial and error.

Good luck bud, love the thinking behind your thread.

 

Have a read through the link, might help if you want to breed some. :P 

 

http://animals.mom.me/freshwater-snails-babies-5832.html

salokcinnodrog and cloud9 like this

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I think most bases are covered but if it's any use to you enterprise tackle to these (eBay number) 311559031114

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yonny and Big Common like this

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A number of years ago on here, we had a discussion on fishing over hemp with a bare hook.

 

that had come up in my thinking do you actually need to bait the hook or could it just be in the pile and get sucked up with all the bits , I'll have a search and see if I can find the old thread 

 

 

dave 

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I think most bases are covered but if it's any use to you enterprise tackle to these (eBay number) 311559031114

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

 

thanks guys I'll get some on order and see what arrives 

 

cheers , dave 

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You have http://www.dynamitebaits.com/products/p/frenzied-hempseed-snails which can be used as baits as well as an attractor.

 

I honestly believe that there are some fish which simply won't take boilies, or take so long to get onto them that particles and a natural are a better option for them.

cloud9, yonny, xpl0rer and 1 other like this

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that had come up in my thinking do you actually need to bait the hook or could it just be in the pile and get sucked up with all the bits , I'll have a search and see if I can find the old thread 

 

 

dave 

In the states pack-bait men use a bead.  I think Jerome was the first guy on CAG to use an underwater camera to evaluate rigs.

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You have http://www.dynamitebaits.com/products/p/frenzied-hempseed-snails which can be used as baits as well as an attractor.

 

I honestly believe that there are some fish which simply won't take boilies, or take so long to get onto them that particles and a natural are a better option for them.

 

smashing link thank you , I to think that some carp wont touch boilies and natural baits are the way to go

 

 

dave  

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When I these nuts hang in focus, it's Wu tang

 

 

Sent from my HUAWEI G6-L11 using Tapatalk

Edited by xpl0rer

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well I still have things that go around in my head,normally late at night when I cant sleep,  having  been thinking on the lines of not actually baiting the hook just having it in a pile of particles , I'm thinking that its going to need something to give it more mass ( easier to be scucked up off the lake bed ) also looking like its just part of the natural environment.

this is what I've come up with so far , a natural fren type of aquarium decoration , just whipped on with a standard knotless knot , and placed into a small pva mesh stick or bag of particles ( bird food used here ) .

dave

 

WP_20170223_12_32_06_Pro.jpg

WP_20170223_12_40_02_Pro.jpg

WP_20170223_12_44_34_Pro.jpg

WP_20170223_12_43_05_Pro.jpg

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WP_20170223_12_53_54_Pro.jpg

WP_20170223_12_53_40_Pro.jpg

 

hopefully this will just get sucked in with all the bits and pieces that they normally pick up when feeding

 

dave   

Edited by cloud9
Big Common likes this

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Years ago a pal of mine was fishing three hemp seeds threaded along the length of a fine hair on a simple hair rig, introduced with a mesh bag of seeds. It was similar to what you're doing there in that there was no bait of significant weight/mass to aid rig mechanics, it was as close to fishing a bare hook as I've seen anyone do. I remember thinking he was nuts until he bagged up on carp and tench.

cloud9 likes this

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16 hours ago, yonny said:

Years ago a pal of mine was fishing three hemp seeds threaded along the length of a fine hair on a simple hair rig, introduced with a mesh bag of seeds. It was similar to what you're doing there in that there was no bait of significant weight/mass to aid rig mechanics, it was as close to fishing a bare hook as I've seen anyone do. I remember thinking he was nuts until he bagged up on carp and tench.

I saw somebody fishing a bare hook over hemp, and they caught. I could never convince myself when particle fishing and I could place my bait by hand, to do the same.

 

Cloud's idea of hiding the hook with weed has been done, although the version I saw had a bait on the hook or hair as well

yonny likes this

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