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Dicky123

Why expensive boilies are a con.

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42 minutes ago, WillbeCarpin said:

Aint much of a problem!!! pick cheapest and spend rest on a few beers to enjoy your fishing a bit more.

The cheapest may not always be the best:wink:

Nor for that matter the most expensive, because of points made further up the thread, the cost of what the final tackle shop has to sell it for.

Why is that bait so cheap?

Will that bait firm or manufacturer still be around in 6 months or a years time?

I could go to a guy who makes very good bait in his garage, because he is currently unemployed, and just making baits to earn a few quid, but if he gets a job will he stop making bait, or will he go full time bait making?

I had a very good bait, which as a field tester I got for nothing, yes, you did read that right, nothing, albeit I did pay carriage if I had mine delivered. (When I first started I did pay for baits, but got moved up, not that I admitted it, even on here)

 However the bait firm in its wisdom Scrooged baits they made on other companies base mixes, result was a bait firm disappearing, and I had been using them for 9years!

They had made some very good baits for me, from my own very high attract stink to high heaven pop-ups, to food source baits which I had been in from long before release, one of which was the bait I used over Christmas New Years session mentioned above.

It can pay to be using a reputable top name company, Essential, CC Moore, Nutrabaits, Crafty Catcher or Solar and the like for the reasons above.

Not all of the top bait companies are actually 100%, I can think of a couple I would not trust, ethics, or will not use for personal reasons.

 

 

Gaz makes the point very nicely about instant or attractor baits, but there are also some very good food source baits that I would also include in that category.

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Gaz.

I think your observations are very near the mark. I agree about food source baits being for long term anglers, I mention this in my original post. Also agree very few baits are poor quality these days.

But I would slightly disagree over venue specific. From what I know they work almost every place. From big understocked pits in Europe, to small well stocked pits. Bright single pop ups seem to invite curiosity in carp, and once they pick them up, bingo. What I cannot understand is why so many big fish get done, over and over again? Some of the biggest carp caught all year take SBP. 

Nice to see a thinking angler, with an open mind.

Dicky.

 

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Gaz.

ive been re-reading you post. Could you tell me who said all boilies are the same? It's certainly not me? Because that's the question I feel you have poised and answered! Just go back a bit and have a look mate?

Dicky.

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That was more aimed at Steve really, this topic has come up a few times and it just ends up going round in circles.

Some believe some don't, that's just the way it is.

However I will pose one question at you Dicky 

These fish that get caught on high attract baits time and time again, surely supposition.

Some of the biggest carp in the land are caught on all manner of different baits, plastics, foam, boilies (high attract and food sources) particles, pellets, the list is endless. 

Like I've mentioned it depends on a number of different variants.

Weather Conditions

Angling Pressure

Predation

Physiology 

Time

Yes fish get caught on high attract, but they also don't just the same as any other bait. It's up to the angler to make the right decision at the right time.

Baits, rigs, set ups are all secondary compared to an anglers skill.

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1 hour ago, Gazlaaar said:

That was more aimed at Steve really, this topic has come up a few times and it just ends up going round in circles.

Some believe some don't, that's just the way it is.

However I will pose one question at you Dicky 

These fish that get caught on high attract baits time and time again, surely supposition.

Some of the biggest carp in the land are caught on all manner of different baits, plastics, foam, boilies (high attract and food sources) particles, pellets, the list is endless. 

Like I've mentioned it depends on a number of different variants.

Weather Conditions

Angling Pressure

Predation

Physiology 

Time

Yes fish get caught on high attract, but they also don't just the same as any other bait. It's up to the angler to make the right decision at the right time.

Baits, rigs, set ups are all secondary compared to an anglers skill.

Gaz and Dicky makes the point about single bright pop-ups catching, but again in what situation?

On a local park lake I fished bright pop-ups, a nice yellow bait, but I fished it over either pellets, Sweetcorn or Vitalin.

Produced plenty of fish, but to the casting all you saw going out was a bright yellow pineapple boilie, you hadn't seen the spodding or groundbait being balled in, you may have seen the splash from a ball of groundbait around the lead.

I knew the fish were just cleaning up the baited area, and everything in that area was being eaten, including the pop-up boilie fished tight to the bottom (critically balanced).

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these diving enthusiasts point out the masses of uneaten boilies

How many of these waters that have been dived have a nut ban ?, I can't use nuts as my water has a nut ban, but mass baiting with nuts is worse than boilies due to the fact that they never breakdown but poor quality boilies are just as bad for the same reason.  For me a good boilie should breakdown over a period of time but like you highlight a lot don't but like any bait when it is dump into a water on mass it becomes a problem.

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19 minutes ago, hutch said:

How many of these waters that have been dived have a nut ban ?, I can't use nuts as my water has a nut ban, but mass baiting with nuts is worse than boilies due to the fact that they never breakdown but poor quality boilies are just as bad for the same reason.  For me a good boilie should breakdown over a period of time but like you highlight a lot don't but like any bait when it is dump into a water on mass it becomes a problem.

College Reservoir in Devon or Cornwall fished absolutely pants for a year after being heavily baited with tiger nuts. It was only when the eventual rotted baits came to the surface, or were eaten by swans that it started fishing again.

 

Most boilies do break down over time, although in the past, shelf life's did not, but preservatives have moved on.

Even pellets will take time to break down, not all get eaten.

It is the make-up of the bait that allows it to break down, a mix of solids, solubles and mesh sizes of ingredients. As water flows in, and softens the bait it will break down, allowing smaller fish to eat it, as well as other bugs. 

In fact on rich natural waters, the closest a carp comes to eating bait is eating the bug that ate the boilie.

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As well as a good bait, skill and time served, there is also a certain amount of luck in every catch, that's the beauty of angling, Terry Hearn's latest big fish, the Parrot, he went through every big fish in the lake before getting his target, but yet he could of had out first... with a bit of luck. He had that on a shaved down tiger nut with a particle loose feed, i thought he was a sponsored boilie angler?

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7 minutes ago, hutch said:

No drama's to be had there he has a consultancy roll at Dynamite but they do a full range of baits not just boilies

Up until i heard about this catch of the Parrot by TH, i would of said tiger nuts are a summer bait? especially loose feeding a parti mix with it, never be able to buy skill like that, wonder what water he is off to next.

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1 hour ago, Big Common said:

Anglers fault for overbaiting the wrong spots, not the baits fault...... Probably did this in winter or early spring.

You can put in a bait you can guarantee carp will eat, not necessarily the best, but halibut pellets say, in the wrong spot, or in too big amounts and the area will get left alone for months!

 

Carp do not eat by taste or amount. We just call it taste, but they can taste the amino acids in the water long before eating it.

If a bait after 3 days is just a ball of semolina, then carp can well avoid it. The flavour and attractors have washed out. A decent food source bait will still have some nutritional attraction, the fishmeal, the meat meal or maybe the yeast meal alongside the milk and binders.

 

 

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My thorts...

I use to fish a now very popular runs water and i was using the source a dark red/brown bait at the time it was all the hype and matty hayes swore by it ... this paticular water was only a few years old and the water was still very muddy i used the source for about 3 months solid on all rods and i was picking up 1 or 2 fish a session not bad but not great for a runs water.

One week i had run out of bait and money , at the time i was in college and most of my money was used on weekends drinking with the lads chasing crumpet  ... raiding the piggy bank and scraping pennys off the side i had 4 quid in my back burner on the way to the tackle shop i was going to buy something i just didnt no what.

While i was in there nothing was in my price range i even thort about leaving and going to buy some cans of corn but then i came across some large pots of tutti frutti shelf life chops ... at 2.99 ... now these were the most moody looking boilies ever they where rejects from the local bait company all different shapes and sizes but i had no other option so i took the plunge and still had enuff for a bag of chips on the way home.

The next day i took my chops along with me and had a red letter day somewhere around 12-15 fish all on these reject chops after that i fished these chops up against the source side by side and the rejects consistently outfished the source.

I thort in muddy water that the fish would use there sense of smell and the source really did have a wiff to them ... but i would like to go on record and say the fish where actually using there sight even in muddy water over smell and i put it down to the colour of the rejects it has to be them rejects didnt even smell like tutti frutti they didnt really smell they where just orange smelless mishapes that out fished the top bait of that era.

Think of this next time you visit a tackle shop.

 

Edited by DEANO30

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My mate came second in a match fished on an overstocked puddle a few years ago.
Almost a fish a cast. Only little ones mind, Roach, Rudd that sort of thing.
But total weight was quite high (obviously).
He was using a bit of silver foil wrapped around a tiny hook.
You couldn't make it up.....

:shock:

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Jeez, I've missed a good'n here eh lads?

Are expensive boilies a con? Yes. But most expensive boilies (£10+) can be bought for nigh on half that if you know where to look and buy enough.

All this talk of effectiveness (which has little to do with price IMO, there's loads of top quality baits at 5 to 7 quid a pop) and no-one's mentioned practicality. Yes bait can be done for much, much cheaper than boilie but it's a bit of a ball ache lets face it. If I had to choose between soaking. prepping (i.e. adding to), boiling, bagging, spodding etc etc.,  and grabbing a bag of baits out the freezer and sticking them out I know which I'd prefer. Yes liver is a fantastic bait but I don't fancy dealing with several kilos of the stuff over the course of a 3 day session.

No-ones mentioned versatility either. A boilie can be chopped or crumbed  to suit almost any baiting situation. Nuts or corn cannot be formed into hard round balls and popped accurately on a spot at more than 10 yards from the margin with a catty or stick. You'd need to get the old carp scarer out.

It's probs not a fair argument comparing particle with boilie price-wise; you'd have to compare pre-prepared particle (also a rip off) with ready-mades, or home made baits with home prepped particle (which are much cheaper than off-the-shelf).

I don't consider 6 quid for a kilo of quality bait to be a rip off. It's expensive, but not a rip off. I use a lot of particle too, but in all honestly I consider the time it takes me to prepare it to be worth more than the few quid extra the boilie costs.

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17 hours ago, smufter said:

My mate came second in a match fished on an overstocked puddle a few years ago.
Almost a fish a cast. Only little ones mind, Roach, Rudd that sort of thing.
But total weight was quite high (obviously).
He was using a bit of silver foil wrapped around a tiny hook.
You couldn't make it up.....

:shock:

Sounds like bleak bashing on the Thames.

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Courses for horses i feel chaps. Put it this way, if you spend 12 quid a kilo and have a good sesh of course you're gonne buy more. Doesn't say you will catch the same again. Confidence chaps is key (not nash) use whatever floats your boat, be it particle or boilie but be confident.

Yes bait is marked up heavily but even i do that with my business. Thats life.

No point moaning about it.

Btw

Yes i pay £5 a kilo but thats for my loose feed which are boilies. 

My hookbaits are £18 a tub of 35. 

Since using these in conjunction with my boilies i have had very good sessions of late. Confidence

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12 hours ago, phil dalts said:

My hookbaits are £18 a tub of 35. 

I'm sure I remember you saying you use Specialized? I just took delivery of some S2 cork balls (my faves), GLMP cork balls (new one to me, for fishing over fishmeals this year) and some F1 corkballs for next winter.

They are hideously expensive, I'd struggle to argue with anyone who says we're getting ripped-off. But, they are twice as good as anything I can do at home, and the baits I prep at home are brilliant so that says a lot. End of the day it's the hookbaits that get you the bite so I don't mind paying the extra.

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When I first started using Trigga years ago, they were around £11 a kilo of boilies. Pretty much around the same price as now I think

They were worth it then, so I reckon still are.

I think 10kilos of base mix was £72.50, and the extras I added made it probably around £90 for 10kilos of base. Add the time it took to make that bait up, 10k of base mix, made around 13kilos of boilies. I don't or didn't think that was a con then or now. When I got a rolling company to make my bait for me with my extras, it cost probably a £1.50 more per kilo of boilies, but saved me time.

 

Now stop and think about your bait. What do you want from it, how are you using it? Are you fishing a water long term with a campaign, or are you flitting from water to water, or doing a campaign on one water and fishing a holiday week on a big Linear type water.

 

The bait you want for your long term campaign is likely to be different from the bait you use from fishing more than one water.

It is probably easier to use a standard attractor shelf life boilie on various waters where you may only want a few baits around the hookbait, using the attraction of that, but with limited food value. Any extra feeding or baited area can be created with cheaper particles, pellets or groundbait. 'Danny Fairbrass' style spodding bait fishing if you want.

 

A campaign water you will want a better quality bait, and the cost of that. Find a good nutritional boilie or boilies, compare prices, work out if it is viable for a year or season, then decide if it is value for money.

You may only fish hookbaits only, but if you prebait you are creating the 'reliance' and expectation of your bait. The single hookbait will work on 'ooh, here is one I missed earlier'.

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18 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

The bait you want for your long term campaign is likely to be different from the bait you use from fishing more than one water.

It is probably easier to use a standard attractor shelf life boilie on various waters where you may only want a few baits around the hookbait, using the attraction of that, but with limited food value. Any extra feeding or baited area can be created with cheaper particles, pellets or groundbait. 'Danny Fairbrass' style spodding bait fishing if you want.

 

A campaign water you will want a better quality bait, and the cost of that. Find a good nutritional boilie or boilies, compare prices, work out if it is viable for a year or season, then decide if it is value for money.

Not for me bud. I want to use a top quality bait regardless of the water.

Edited by yonny

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2 hours ago, yonny said:

I'm sure I remember you saying you use Specialized? I just took delivery of some S2 cork balls (my faves), GLMP cork balls (new one to me, for fishing over fishmeals this year) and some F1 corkballs for next winter.

 

Dont know what you're talking about matey 😄

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1 hour ago, yonny said:

Not for me bud. I want to use a top quality bait regardless of the water.

I have to agree with you. All of the money and time that goes into my fishing i need to have what i think is the best quality bait out there and enough of it. I take a lot with me on sessions, doesnt mean it all has to go in, but why spend all it costs, take all the time to fish with something you know/think is not the best bait you can have with you. Doesn't need to be £15 a kilo either.

Its the same with guys who have £400 rods and reels sitting on the bank but moan about the price of a hook sharpener or the price of bait. For me its confidence and taking a bait im certain its not as good as another would be wrong imo.

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Hi there this year I decided to bite the bullet and start fishing the key bait from Nash, all I can say I have fished the same three venue for the last four years and this year so far I have had a 63 carp in a 24 hour session and a 46 carp in a 24 session so I think there are very good but we are visiting a whole new venue this weekend for a 48 hour session so see how they go there thanks for reading 

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40 minutes ago, jamesmw said:

Hi there this year I decided to bite the bullet and start fishing the key bait from Nash, all I can say I have fished the same three venue for the last four years and this year so far I have had a 63 carp in a 24 hour session and a 46 carp in a 24 session so I think there are very good but we are visiting a whole new venue this weekend for a 48 hour session so see how they go there thanks for reading 

Welcome to the forum.

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