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I have 3lb mainly because I like the idea of solid PVA bags and wanted something with enough back bone to chuck them out , my old rods from 20odd years ago are only 1.75lb with a lovely through action , plus the old rods are 11ft long in them days most were 10ft , my new one's are 12ft .

 

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In 1989 I had a Daiwa Specimen rod which was a 2lb TC, 1994 I was using 2.25 and 2.5 which were my first proper carp rods. I had a pair of North Westerns which were 2.5, and then when 1 was stolen went over to the 2.25 Century Armalites.

1997 I got Armalite mk ii's which were 2.75, then I switched to SP's in the same test curve. To be honest, in terms of casting distance the 2.75 Mk ii's cast shorter, but I think the improvement was down to modern technology, and larger reels on SP's.

 

I then switched to NG's in 2.75 as I renewed as I had no real need for mega distances, and the NG's could still cast, but not quite as well as the casting rods that the SP's were.

 

Early this year I think it was, I bought a set of Rod Hutchinson The Ones in 3.25, and I found no improvement in casting distance, but slight improvement in terms of slinging out big bags, not quite as much 'oomph' required. 

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I can see the point of using heavier T/C's at distance with bags, (with a soft set clutch for when under the rod tip) on big waters, but I cannot for the life of me understand the preoccupation with higher T/C's for the standard commie work.... When you consider that Yates's 51lb 8oz fish was caught on a split cane MkIV Avon rod with a T/C of probably about  1lb, then it makes a bit of a mockery of the current fad for the heavier rods.

For my Carbon Carping I have an early pair of Nash Dwarf  2.75lb'ers (I have a set of 12' Fox Warriors in the garage of 2.75lb, I never use 'em now) I've never felt the urge to go heavier and it tickles me to hear the dark mutterings of folk on local waters using 3.5lb rods who have hook pull after hook pull under the rod tip, bemoaning the fact that "The Carp Here Have Soft Mouths"

In my opinion, heavier rods are one of the culprits of mouth damage.. I've seen it sooooo many times... Of course the tackle trade has a lot to answer for, inasmuch as some lad walks into a shop with his dad, (who knows nowt about fishing) and the lad says to the shop chap... "I want 20-30lb fish" the shop lad then points dad at the latest 3lb + rods and big pit reels for a big hit on sales....

They don't stop to think that a young lad isn't going to be able to compress a rod that powerful on the cast, or that that the rod is just too long for a 4' 10" lad... they just see the £ signs for the shop and then when the lad gives up carping through frustration because he loses too many fish or he can't cast properly, the shop folk bemoan the "Lack Of Youth On The Scene"  wonder why that is.....????

For local commie work (and most fisheries are these days) of up to about 5 acres, with no snags, then 12' 2.75lb is more than ample  even for solid bags...

 

sorry for the rant... just my 2 pennyworth8):D

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I've got sonik sk3s in 2.75. Had my pb of 42 from a weedy pit, in fact it ploughed through a few weedbeds and I got it out no problem. Don't see the need for any higher unless you really need it for the casting. I once read an article (dont ask me to find it) about a Dutch angler that only ever uses 2.75tc and has fish to 60-70lb and he had the same opinion that any higher is pointless. He did use a boat to drop rigs though so didnt need to cast. 

It's down to the style of angling. I never use PVA bags, therefore I dont see the need for anything over 2.75lb. The big pit angler that wants to launch a bait 170+yds will need higher to make his life easier. 

I think you're right, mouth damage is caused by the stupid tc rods on little overstocked ponds. I've seen it at local day tickets where the lake is about an acre and there is a few blokes using 3.25 or 3.5tc rods! When asked why they say because that's what they bought after looking on forums and asking around. No logic or sense for some people.

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In all honesty, not all 3lb + rods are broom handles in disguise... some are "through actioned" which is more forgiving than the tip actioned ones.... the tip actions are for casting  the big baits a long way.... the problem lies with folk wanting big rods ("cos That's what  him off the telly uses") and not understanding the purpose for which they were designed

 

Angling media should partly shoulder the blame here....!

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I use a 3.25 with the outer carbon weave removed from the blank above the top 4 guides. This means I have the strength in the butt to cast where I need to but the rods play fish like a 2.75 at most. Best rods available for my needs I reckon.

28 minutes ago, bluelabel said:

When you consider that Yates's 51lb 8oz fish was caught on a split cane MkIV Avon rod with a T/C of probably about  1lb, then it makes a bit of a mockery of the current fad for the heavier rods.

But when you consider those guys used to lose 10 fish to every one they landed that could be misleading lol....

22 minutes ago, greekskii said:

Don't see the need for any higher unless you really need it for the casting.

That. These high TC rods are designed for casting, they're not for dragging fish from weed, they were originally developed for casting, nothing more. Kids nowadays do not realise that.

13 minutes ago, bluelabel said:

the problem lies with folk wanting big rods ("cos That's what  him off the telly uses") and not understanding the purpose for which they were designed

Angling media should partly shoulder the blame here....!

Absolutely bud. I know a young lad that bought new rods to "deal with bigger fish" at his new syndicate water. He went for 3.5's. The water is 3 acres in size...... longest cast is 40 yards. There are folk all over the country making the same mistake.

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2 minutes ago, yonny said:

But when you consider those guys used to lose 10 fish to every one they landed that could be misleading lol....

Redmire is wall to wall, floor to ceiling weed for most of the summer... and very snaggy in places, in angling terms it's a parrot cage to fish.... so it's no wonder they lost so many... would a heavier rod see more fish banked... possibly, maybe even probably, but at what cost? with mouth damage or  or stress by skull dragging the fish out of weed beds... that's not the way I'd want to fish...

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45 minutes ago, bluelabel said:

In my opinion, heavier rods are one of the culprits of mouth damage.

 

38 minutes ago, greekskii said:

I think you're right, mouth damage is caused by the stupid tc rods

While high TC rods may be one of the culprits, for me it is bad angling that leads to mouth damaged. A bad angler can rip a fishes face off with a 2.5 TC rod where it is perfectly do-able to land a fish hooked a foot from the bank using a 3.75 TC  rod with no damage at all.

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5 minutes ago, yonny said:

 

While high TC rods may be one of the culprits, for me it is bad angling that leads to mouth damaged. A bad angler can rip a fishes face off with a 2.5 TC rod where it is perfectly do-able to land a fish hooked a foot from the bank using a 3.75 TC  rod with no damage at all.

Yes, in the wrong hands and situation. Just realised it sounds like i'm saying its the only reason for it. 

 

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22 minutes ago, bluelabel said:

Redmire is wall to wall, floor to ceiling weed for most of the summer... and very snaggy in places, in angling terms it's a parrot cage to fish.... so it's no wonder they lost so many... would a heavier rod see more fish banked... possibly, maybe even probably, but at what cost? with mouth damage or  or stress by skull dragging the fish out of weed beds... that's not the way I'd want to fish...

 

29 minutes ago, yonny said:

I use a 3.25 with the outer carbon weave removed from the blank above the top 4 guides. This means I have the strength in the butt to cast where I need to but the rods play fish like a 2.75 at most. Best rods available for my needs I reckon.

But when you consider those guys used to lose 10 fish to every one they landed that could be misleading lol....

That. These high TC rods are designed for casting, they're not for dragging fish from weed, they were originally developed for casting, nothing more. Kids nowadays do not realise that.

Absolutely bud. I know a young lad that bought new rods to "deal with bigger fish" at his new syndicate water. He went for 3.5's. The water is 3 acres in size...... longest cast is 40 yards. There are folk all over the country making the same mistake.

Slightly annoying, because Yonny's post quote cuts out the posts he has quoted, which are important to my reply, but I hope you get my drift.

The lost fish in weed at places like Redmire is the materials used, cane and early carbons had less feel than now, less strength all the way through, hook quality has improved, playing fish on Salmon specials or fine wire hooks not designed for carp, even line quality, more abrasion resistance, and possibly inline or drop-off leads all may well improve hooked landed ratio.

Heavier test curve rods tend to be more tip action, more designed for casting rather than fish playing. A through action rod in a lighter test curve is better for playing fish on, NOT the heavier test curve rod, and even some of the big name media anglers get this wrong, and/or fashion has seen heavier 3lb+ rods become the norm. We have also started using higher diameter, higher breaking strain lines where a higher test curve will cast them better, if matched with a big reel.

In my post about I mentioned the rods I was using years ago, on the 2.25's I could still cast over 100metres, but I was using 8lb line with a shockleader, 3oz leads and 4000/6010 size Baitrunners, today's equivalent is the Shimano 8000 size.

With the SP's, hitting the same distances I had moved up to 15lb line, same size lead and Big Pit reels. I was also casting big stringers, bags and meshes comfortably shorter distances.

The reason for going to NG's in same test curve was fish playing on a 2acre water, no long distances, the longest I needed to go was 90metres!

 

 

In this country, unless you are fishing a massive water where regular long distance is required regularly, then I think 2.75lb TC rods are the most you will need.

 

This is an edit to reply to Greekski and Yonny:

Carp rods on a small carp water, 2.5lb rods and above, when actually a heavy ledger, barbel rod or Avon style is suitable.

By small carp water, I don't mean a lake, I mean smaller carp, where maybe the biggest is maybe 20lb.

 

A few years ago now I was fishing a lake in Suffolk, 'Denis' was cast along the margins into the corner. Denis was a 1.5lb rod, 8lb line and a 4000 size reel.

My best two fish of the day 16 and 20 were on that rod!

Edited by salokcinnodrog
Addition

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1 hour ago, bluelabel said:

In my opinion, heavier rods are one of the culprits of mouth damage..

I did say "one of" not "the only one" of...

 

using a heavy rod with a tight clutch under the rod tip is bad angling, but that is an issue for educating anglers and the media has to take some responsibility for that.... its all very well advocating the use of these rods in certain situations, but as we all know the situation changes when the fish is near the net... anglers (and quite a few more than you'd think) are often forgetting things like this as that fish nears the net cord... in the excitement it happens and as a matter of course it should be explained that a lighter clutch setting at the point of netting will help alleviate hook pulls with heavier rods

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5 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

fashion has seen heavier 3lb+ rods become the norm. We have also started using higher diameter, higher breaking strain lines where a higher test curve will cast them better, if matched with a big reel.

It's not all fashion IMO. We're using stronger rods, stronger lines, bigger reels etc.... because we're fishing for bigger fish in bigger waters. Everyone has access to 30's, 40's and bigger if you know where to look, whereas 30s were very, very thin on the ground when we were all using 2 lb TC rods. Twenties were considered very big indeed!

But I do agree that many young anglers go straight for the 3.5's for fashion reasons, regardless of where they angle.

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12 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

cane and early carbons had less feel than now, less strength all the way through,

6 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

 

Not sure I'd agree with that totally... as a cane user currently, I think that my cane rods (MkIV Carp, Sharpe's 8'stalking and Sharpe's 9' Stalking) have as much feel as carbon or glass, I'd agree that they have less power, the cane Sharpes 9' is only about 1.75-2.0lb but then feel is purely down to the user.. we are all different.

Being and older Old Skool angler I was brought up on cane so I have a point of reference, I'd surmise that younger angler do not have this luxury:D8)

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44 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

A few years ago now I was fishing a lake in Suffolk, 'Denis' was cast along the margins into the corner. Denis was a 1.5lb rod, 8lb line and a 4000 size reel.

My best two fish of the day 16 and 20 were on that rod!

On the March club outing this year I managed a 16lb 4oz fish on an 8' compact feeder rod designed for skimmers and small carp... you can land pretty much anything if you handle the fish carefully... there are inumerable stories of fish big being landed on light tackle which kinda begs the question why do we need such heavy gear (yes I do know the reasons why:D)

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29 minutes ago, bluelabel said:

Not sure I'd agree with that totally... as a cane user currently, I think that my cane rods (MkIV Carp, Sharpe's 8'stalking and Sharpe's 9' Stalking) have as much feel as carbon or glass, I'd agree that they have less power, the cane Sharpes 9' is only about 1.75-2.0lb but then feel is purely down to the user.. we are all different.

Being and older Old Skool angler I was brought up on cane so I have a point of reference, I'd surmise that younger angler do not have this luxury:D8)

A mate of mine uses his cane rods still, although mostly for chub, and I do get to play every now and again. I personally found they are more wobbly, slower recovery and affected by wind. Ledgering I found a whole lot more difficult than with my more modern rods.

I did however enjoy renovating one of his cane rods back to looking new!

37 minutes ago, yonny said:

It's not all fashion IMO. We're using stronger rods, stronger lines, bigger reels etc.... because we're fishing for bigger fish in bigger waters. Everyone has access to 30's, 40's and bigger if you know where to look, whereas 30s were very, very thin on the ground when we were all using 2 lb TC rods. Twenties were considered very big indeed!

But I do agree that many young anglers go straight for the 3.5's for fashion reasons, regardless of where they angle.

I would agree, but have a look and see what Ritchie Mac landed Basil or Heather on, think it was 6lb line, on the rods of the day, can't have been much more than a 2lb test curve at the max.

Yes I think we have started going onto bigger waters, most definitely, pioneering and now every water contains carp, plus not everyone wants to be sat round the intimate little pool now

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Having eschewed the numbers game some years ago I now get my "Jollies" from smaller fish on "Old/Vintage Gear" as I said in an earlier post, a Sharpe's 9' stalking rod only has a T/C of about 1.75-2.0lb the 8 foot version is a slimmer cane, so probably about 1.5lbs but maybe if folk starting out were not so keen to get the 20-30-40lbs... or even bigger fish before they have any experience catching the smaller ones, we'd have less damaged fish and less unwanted carp gear for sale and more anglers staying in the sport.... I'm not advocating the use of cane here... just a bit of common sense in tackle choice,  some brains from tackle dealers, and more importantly responsibility from the media  in promoting Carp Fishing as a sport and hobby...

How big do you think the smile on my face was after this little lad hit the net....

20160808_134547_zpsvemry34t.jpg

 

 

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Ritchie used 2.25 Tri-Cast with 8lb mainline and 6lb hooklink back in the day.

A short rod will exert more pressure than a long rod. A through action rod exerts more pressure as it bends...it gets shorter. Fast tapers do not absorb shock well but cast very well. Kids follow trends,some of them are just too thick to ever think for themselves so it's not all the media and tackle firms fault.  Except blooming Kkkkkorda. 

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I have two set ups, one set up has torrix 3.25lb which gets used on larger waters, waters that hold big cats and snaggy waters.

My other set up rods are AK47's twin tips in 1.75lb and 2.75lb, I have barely used the 2.75lb tips, because the 1.75lb tips are just so much fun to use. Married with the right lead and small stick they can hit 75-80 yards without too much trouble and playing fish on them is so enjoyable. I have had fish to mid 30's on them and they have never felt out of their comfort zone once. I feel that anglers who have come to the sport in the last ten or fifteen  years and have never used anything other than broom handles have/are missing out on so much. After all for me the biggest buzz is when we have a fish on and the lighter rods enharnce this no end in my mind.

I do like the torrix and I don't think they feel like a 3.25lb rod with a fish on but given the choice, if they can be used, it's the 1.75lb AK 47's every time for me.

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4 minutes ago, gidneyboy said:

I feel that anglers who have come to the sport in the last ten or fifteen  years and have never used anything other than broom handles have/are missing out on so much. After all for me the biggest buzz is when we have a fish on and the lighter rods enharnce this no end in my mind.

I agree. A lot of newer carp anglers just don't understand what a fishing rod is supposed to do, they base their opinions on their experiences landing fish on casting rods. The vast majority of these modern rods that are said to play fish OK as well as cast simply do not. It's not possible to have the best of both worlds, you just need to get as close as you can if you can only afford one set of rods.

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33 minutes ago, yonny said:

I agree. A lot of newer carp anglers just don't understand what a fishing rod is supposed to do, they base their opinions on their experiences landing fish on casting rods. The vast majority of these modern rods that are said to play fish OK as well as cast simply do not. It's not possible to have the best of both worlds, you just need to get as close as you can if you can only afford one set of rods.

Agreed, it is a best of both worlds and also people need to realise you don't need to break the bank to get 1 or even 2 sets of rods. I have a set of greys prodigy gt3 in 2.5lb and these are fantastic 8/10 times but have a set of wychwood c101 at 3lb for the heavy stuff, at 60 quid each they cast like a dream 

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I've got 3 setups, 2.5tc jrc lms coupled with wychwood baitrunners loaded with 10lb line. 3.25tc Nash skylines coupled with Shimano biomasters loaded with 15lb line. Nash dwarf hgun 9ft 2.75tc coupled with Nash h gun fr3 reels loaded with 12lb. I love using the jrc setup the most, had carp to 29lb on them without any trouble, but recently with no transport I've been using the nash dwarf setup because of how compact all my kit is for it. The rods feel great, but have only caught 1 carp with them so far so can't say too much about them. The Nash skyline setup gets used about twice a year at most. Their great for casting but I don't like playing fish on them lol. If I had to choose one to use all the time it would be the 2.5tc rods 

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