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bluelabel

Match Versus Specimen Stylee

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I realise that a tc alone is not the culprit. Infact I loved those rods for there fish playing ability. But they are now too soft to be able to gain control instantly in certain situations, if I am to balance the set up accordingly. I was using 12lb mono , maybe it was the stretch in the mono and the soft rods combined that lost me those fish? I was fishing locked up in the edge about 3ft off the weed. They weren't lost to hook pulls, line parted after fish buried in weed........ My thinking was that if I'd used beefier gear, this could have been prevented.

I was gutted afterwards. Bought some different rods, which I've never felt at home with as they are 3.25tc, hence now browsing for some budget 3lb tc rods.

I just think that when you lose a fish, you know in an instant what the cause was after checking things. I did have a couple of fish off this spot. But in hindsight, during the month or so I fished it, the weed would have thickened and I perhaps could have fished a foot or two more away from it. I felt that they were lost instantly, by being able to gain a few extra feet or so ,before I could pick up the rod.

Slightly off topic, but I think this is another reason why "snag ears" can be misunderstood. As they will not stop a rod tip from hooping round. Just help rod from falling off the rest. Good old bankstick in the ground further up the blank.

It wasn't so much the playing of the fish, as I mentioned, I had faith in these rods for fish playing. It was the initial run on a locked up set up. Being a softer set up , there was too much give in it. And therefore I never got the chance to play them..

"extension to the arm" I like that...... I must invest in some 14 footers. As most people that know me will say that I've got short arms (and long pockets)..... :)

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The idea of snag ears is to put instant pressure on the fish without losing your rod, i always snag fish at ninety degrees so the rod exerts pressure instantly, braid helps, there is no line stretch and over any distance, that is the key, heavy test rods pull hooks at short range, they are long casting tools, full stop, beat the fish at range or lose it, tools for a job, lobbing big weights miles, not to be used if you dont need them.

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5 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

Poles for carp fishing, don't get me started!

ok Nick, lets get you started, i actually started off targeting carp ON THE POLE! :o

if a method is geared towards your target fish then what could possibly be the anglers objection to using it?

if poles were not meant to be used for carp then why are there so many variants specifically built for the sport, why would the manufacturers invest so much time and money into something not fit for purpose?

you have companies the likes of Shimano with the beastmaster, Ron Thompsons Gangster, Leeda Assassin, Maver iron arm.

all big companies and all good poles that are good for the job, a pole and the relevant strength elastic will cope with carp well into upper 20's without tiring them out any more than a rod will, (dependent on the angler of course) and land them in a comparable time too.

if you know how to use the piece of kit properly then all it can do is beef up your armory, the same with fly rods :twisted:

feel free to take this to a relevant thread but please respond cos i really would like to find out what the objections are, as most folk who have objected in person have only been able to display a dislike of 'match anglers methods' where i was actually looking for  an intelligent bit of thinking behind it.

looking  forward to the flack on this one :lol:

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No, I don't like seeing 'big' carp targeted using a pole, especially during matches.

The anglers is trying to get the fish in as quickly as possible, the hook may be anywhere in the mouth, whereas a carp rig is usually designed to hook bottom lip, on a pole the line may cut into the cheek, the lip, pretty much anywhere in the mouth as it turns. With our carp rigs, the hooklink line is not often exiting the mouth in the cheek scissors. The high pressure of the pole may cause that line to cut the flesh. The pole is trying to lift the fish up in the water.

 

On 'match' style waters, constant recapture (with any tackle), means the carp do not get the chance for hook marks to heal, continual rehooking means mouth damage, even using barbless hooks.

 

A water local to me used to be a match pole paradise carp water. The state of the fishes mouthes was disgusting, parrots, missing lips, scar growths, as I said, even with a barbless only rule. 3hour Midweek matches could be won with over 100lb!

 

As the carp grew, from single to double figures the tackle loss increased, pole floats and rigs in surrounding trees, or occasionally a nice piece of broken carbon decorating the bank.

 

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Tell me about it mate, the numpties that run the club where i got my stupid knickname used to laugh at every crack off they had with their stupid roach poles, i more than doubled there match record with a heavy feeder rod in the same time, selfish idiots, catch at all costs and hate carp anglers, pure madness, i would ban the ruddy things, carp to 38 pounds, 4 pound bottom then giglgle when you get smashed up, shouldnt be allowed, a big fish water, matchmen, i admire there skill but abore there stupidity, Stevie Ringer included.

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Some good views and opinions here and taken on board mabey i was abit over zelouse with the test curve thing and i no when to hold my hands up when im wrong.

My thinking was with a stiffer top section the action is stiffer when the fish lunges the preassure would be more on the line as the stiffer top section didnt have enuff action in it ... i thort the softer section would soak up the lunges and put less preassure on the line because of the softer action but from the posts i see this is wrong.

I agree with big common the heavier gear will give you more control and will get the fish in quicker and that connot be a bad thing and yes there will always be a snag no matter where you fish.

The only thing i dnt agree with is calling people sheep this is a forum to dicuss fishing , views and opinoins are shared and some you will and wont agree with them ... slating and name calling is not needed and adds nothing to the topic in question thoe they mabey your view and opinion sometimes they are better kept to yourself if they add nothing constructive.

 

Edited by DEANO30

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2 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

No, I don't like seeing 'big' carp targeted using a pole, especially during matches.

The anglers is trying to get the fish in as quickly as possible, the hook may be anywhere in the mouth, whereas a carp rig is usually designed to hook bottom lip, on a pole the line may cut into the cheek, the lip, pretty much anywhere in the mouth as it turns. With our carp rigs, the hooklink line is not often exiting the mouth in the cheek scissors. The high pressure of the pole may cause that line to cut the flesh. The pole is trying to lift the fish up in the water.

 

On 'match' style waters, constant recapture (with any tackle), means the carp do not get the chance for hook marks to heal, continual rehooking means mouth damage, even using barbless hooks.

 

A water local to me used to be a match pole paradise carp water. The state of the fishes mouthes was disgusting, parrots, missing lips, scar growths, as I said, even with a barbless only rule. 3hour Midweek matches could be won with over 100lb!

 

As the carp grew, from single to double figures the tackle loss increased, pole floats and rigs in surrounding trees, or occasionally a nice piece of broken carbon decorating the bank.

 

ah!! i now see the reason for your personal dislike Nick, almost every time you have used the word 'pole' you proceed it with the word 'match'.

you are talking about a completely different beast, and a completely different angling mindset.

match poles and carp poles are similar only in name and shape and  built in different ways to give completely different playing action,

1) if you are taking carp on a pole you can accurately target a fish so you would be a raging idiot to target a fish of over 20lb IMO

2) using a pole for carp is the same as freelining a mixer with one major difference so why the hell would you need a float?

3) the hook hold will be exactly the same as you would get while freelining

4) you dont hold the pole up with carp (if you know what you are doing) you actually do the opposite, as soon as you get the hook hold you draw back two sections and then drop the pole tip under the surface in the opposite direction to the run and use the force of the water on the pole to assist in stopping the charge, therefore you have the cushioning of the elastic, the pole, the water and the anglers working of the pole to prevent any damage to the fish.

this chap (not bad for a match angler) gives a reasonably good demo of how to do it.

just leave off the float and fish on the top.

see how he drops the tail end off to get the proper control, although his technique is not absolutely correct he  has got the idea.

keeping the pole tip low to the water (whereas i would have been under the surface) and the action opposing the run he soon brings the carp to the net leaving it plenty of energy to swim away after.

a 25lb carp on the pole and not bad for a frenchman :lol:

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I think that there are a lot of assumptions by carp anglers over the way match lads fish.. yup they could learn a lot about fish care, but saying constant recapture causes mouth damage and laying it soley at the feet of match lads is inflammatory... us carpers are just as responsible for mouth damage as any other group... and as Cyborx says, the way match anglers play fish is different to the way Gordon states... and as a case in point, carpers more often than not play fish with the rod upright... try keeping the rod low to the water and see how easy the fish comes in it uses less pressure and stresses the fish less.... I think rather than slagging off one group of anglers whilst holding yourselves up as holier than thou is rather self serving to be honest... when education is the key, and by that I mean on BOTH sides of the coin... both codes could learn a hell of a lot from each other

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2 hours ago, bluelabel said:

I think that there are a lot of assumptions by carp anglers over the way match lads fish.. yup they could learn a lot about fish care, but saying constant recapture causes mouth damage and laying it soley at the feet of match lads is inflammatory... us carpers are just as responsible for mouth damage as any other group... and as Cyborx says, the way match anglers play fish is different to the way Gordon states... and as a case in point, carpers more often than not play fish with the rod upright... try keeping the rod low to the water and see how easy the fish comes in it uses less pressure and stresses the fish less.... I think rather than slagging off one group of anglers whilst holding yourselves up as holier than thou is rather self serving to be honest... when education is the key, and by that I mean on BOTH sides of the coin... both codes could learn a hell of a lot from each other

without wanting to start a flame war Blue, you may have my post a little wrong.

just like Nick i have a dislike for 'match anglers' in the strict meaning of the term, if you go to a lake and see Joe Bloggs on peg one sitting on his box with his pole out in front he is a pleasure angler and as such he has the time and inclination to treat the fish with reverence and respect, on saturday morning Joe turns up for the draw for the club match, draws peg one and the whistle blows,,, Joe is no longer Joe he is the MATCH ANGLER with a completely different mindset, to get as many fish in his net as possible before the whistle goes again and that is the difference.

i have yet to see a match angler display any compassion for the fish on his hook, i have seen so called 'reputable' anglers tear the hook out from a deep hooked fish as it was quicker than disgorging, have you ever seen an angler 'flip' the fish off the hook? i have and only in two situations, one a match and the other on a sea fishing trip by the boat operator who also wants to clear the hook asap.

a pleasure angler after small quarry or a carp angler are probably not so far apart but when either of them are in a match situation then only one thing counts, weight, weight and more weight as that is what wins.

the words above are NOT assumptions or misconception but actual observations.

personally, as far as rod position and retrieving carp i keep my rod low and to the side opposite the run until the last few feet as this brings the line down in line with the carp and minimizes strain on the mouth (imo) you only need to get the head up at the net init :lol:

as far as the 'holier than thou' attitude from some carpers, as a group of people with the same aspirations carpers can be among the worst of them, it does seem that as the sun goes down then for some so does the good sense thermometer, beer gets guzzled and the odd spliff finds its way round and brains go to bed, this as i see it also seems to be the preserve of the carp angler so no stones thrown there then eh!!

the way i see it is good person=good angler for the most part but a person that has no respect for others will have little or no respect for a slimy fish especially when in competition with like minded people.

as said at the start, this is not the start of a flame war or pointed at any particular person so be warned, it is purely my own opinion so if this post inflames your ire then you have no one to blame but yourselves. take from it as you will :lol:

Jon

Edited by cyborx

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Cyborx.... what I was trying to say in my last post  is, that rather than some folk slagging match anglers off and trying to take a moral high ground, that ALL anglers should put the welfare of the fish first....

 

Now, my original post didn't mention using poles.... Far from it.... it was about carp angling gear being heavier than it need be for certain types of water and the possible benefits of using lighter gear on some commercials rather than the ubiquitous 3lb+ rods and big pits on a 3 acre commy.... I'm reckoning a 1.75lb barbel rod and 8lb line in a nice clear water, where a high double to 20lb (ish) is the norm (going on the premise that I took a 16lb 4oz Common on a setup not unlike that a few weeks ago)

 

The thread seems to have degenerated into a Match V Carp angler row and that's not what I wanted to promote... there is a benefit to using lighter gear.... but .... I'm not so naive to use it where inappropriate... Hell, being an old gimmer, I've been fishing probably a lot longer than some of you guys have been on this planet, (56 years at the last count, and I'm 59 in a few weeks) I'm not exactly a beginner at this game:D

 

now lets all chill and play nice:D8):x

 

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Not so of Cyborx buddy, he is older than me and i am older than you, we have more than a century of fishing between us, i dont agree with him on the pole thing, i have been quoted as saying put them in the garden and grow beans up them, damn things, but he has done the whole thing like me, fly, river and the days when carp were not the target, i hate match fishing, keepnets, factory fishing, seen the giggling prats leaving for the pub with loads of dead bream thrown back, but their ability to extract fish, i admire, just wish they cared more about their captures and less about beating their mates, wrong attitude for a true angler.

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Its a difference of opinion, not a slagging match, sometimes we have to agree to disagree, i would never join a match fishing site but i admire the abilities of a lot of them but fundamentally disagree with their attitude, do i think people would catch more by studying their methods, defo, they could learn a lot about fish care from us.

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7 minutes ago, carpmachine said:

i hate match fishing, keepnets, factory fishing, seen the giggling prats leaving for the pub with loads of dead bream thrown back,

I've not seen that and I've been club match fishing since 1978... on the flip side I've seen some awful behaviour when carpers catch other species other than carp.... like I said... it's not about carpers versus match anglers as people or behaivour.... lets leave out the slagging and play nice...

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1 minute ago, bluelabel said:

this is the point that I'm trying to make

Oh yes mate, a lot fish far to heavy, the big lesson from match angling is the lighter you go the more bites you get, that is unquestionable, the ethics also come in to play,  undergunned happens, we cant deny it but do you need tow rope and a broomstick everytime, no.

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