Jump to content
Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
smufter

Should fishery owners be responsible for checking licences????

Recommended Posts

Personal view... YES! before a ticket is issued a valid rod license should be produced. Clubs and syndicates should do it too. A very complex system would be required for the online purchases though, some form of verification with the EA database. 

Problem is it creates more hassle than its worth. You'd lose money, have to chuck someone off the fishery which could result in aggro. An EA officer was assaulted recently http://www.anglersmail.co.uk/news/rod-licence-dodger-guilty-of-assault-74962 

A responsible fishery owner would check, one that cares about the industry/environment/etc. unfortunately many are only in it for the money and dont actually care beyond growing the bank balance. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Big Common said:

I think fisheries should be fined for having non license payers on their banks

too right. Everyone has the authority. It should be on the fishery owner to check and not sell tickets to those with no license. If they all ran this way, everyone will be forced to buy a license and those that dont will be fishing where they know they wont get checked. It should be part of possessing your fishery license. I know the AT is working on this all the time. I sit on my local consultative and enforcement is a permanent item on the agenda.

EA as a government body are not for profit. Any license monies are put back in to the Fisheries team. I know they are starting to increase the amount of warranted bailiffs. How it works is that any member of staff or anyone can ask for your license however only warranted bailiffs can take details and put you up for prosecution. Historically this has just been the enforcement officers, however now members of the FBG (fisheries, biodiversity and morphology) team are being warranted so they can carry out checks whilst out on site and also be on call to respond to call-ins. One thing that I see as counter productive, and it's too late to change now is not charging to get fish movement licenses. This would have increased fisheries revenue massively but wasnt done. Now the system has been changed to an ongoing license, not per movement, the chance to charge is limited. Most fish farms will already have their licenses in place. Unless a new reform on that comes around (unlikely) then you cant introduce charges really as the bulk of the income will have been missed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I was a fishery owner, I wouldn't want the additional hassle of having to challenge and check everyone entering my fishery. I would be running a business, not acting as a policeman.

If it was put into law, then that would be something they would then have to police, but whilst it is not an obligation, why should they enforce checks. Buying a ticket to fish is not like purchasing alcohol. Do you need to show a car salesman your driving license to buy a car? It's the same situation. If they start acting as an enforcer without the legal obligation to do so, there are unfortunately a minority who will start making threats.

The EA are a non-profit QUANGO, partly funded by DEFRA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, greekskii said:

too right. Everyone has the authority. It should be on the fishery owner to check and not sell tickets to those with no license. If they all ran this way, everyone will be forced to buy a license and those that dont will be fishing where they know they wont get checked. It should be part of possessing your fishery license. I know the AT is working on this all the time. I sit on my local consultative and enforcement is a permanent item on the agenda.

EA as a government body are not for profit. Any license monies are put back in to the Fisheries team. I know they are starting to increase the amount of warranted bailiffs. How it works is that any member of staff or anyone can ask for your license however only warranted bailiffs can take details and put you up for prosecution. Historically this has just been the enforcement officers, however now members of the FBG (fisheries, biodiversity and morphology) team are being warranted so they can carry out checks whilst out on site and also be on call to respond to call-ins. One thing that I see as counter productive, and it's too late to change now is not charging to get fish movement licenses. This would have increased fisheries revenue massively but wasnt done. Now the system has been changed to an ongoing license, not per movement, the chance to charge is limited. Most fish farms will already have their licenses in place. Unless a new reform on that comes around (unlikely) then you cant introduce charges really as the bulk of the income will have been missed. 

 i took the kids away for the week end late last year by the severn and asked the site ranger about their fishing rights on that stretch, his reply "we have 2 miles of this bank and as long as you are staying here its £5 a day, we dont ask for your license cos it just causes hassle but we expect you to have one" :shock:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, InteraX said:

If I was a fishery owner, I wouldn't want the additional hassle of having to challenge and check everyone entering my fishery. I would be running a business, not acting as a policeman.

If it was put into law, then that would be something they would then have to police, but whilst it is not an obligation, why should they enforce checks. Buying a ticket to fish is not like purchasing alcohol. Do you need to show a car salesman your driving license to buy a car? It's the same situation. If they start acting as an enforcer without the legal obligation to do so, there are unfortunately a minority who will start making threats.

The EA are a non-profit QUANGO, partly funded by DEFRA.

Cant agree more ... i wouldnt  be turning money away to fish.

Although i dont fish many ticket waters ,those i have i never been asked by a lake owner or bailiff to show my rod licence , why would they want to turn down £30.00 a night

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Money , well thats the way of the world .

I dont disagree with you BC , i just wouldnt check .

How many have been checked by a fishery owners , i really doubt that many, they have the same morals as me "Take the Money"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, InteraX said:

  Do you need to show a car salesman your driving license to buy a car? It's the same situation. 

Maybe that's because you don't need a driving licence to actually OWN a car. Similarly you don't need a fishing licence to OWN a fishing rod and reel.

But in both instances you DO need a licence if you intend to USE either.

Now it's the same situation.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

Quite simply YES!

 

I also think fisheries themselves should be licensed, especially Day ticket commercials.

 

 

 

I think they should be fined if somebody is caught fishing their water without a licence.

That would make them check.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, smufter said:

I think they should be fined if somebody is caught fishing their water without a licence.

Nah, that's outrageous imo buddy. It's not their job to check. It is the responsibility of the angler to buy one.

If we speak frankly, why would a syndi gaffer receiving up to a grand a year or more from each angler care if they have licenses? If we speak even more frankly, why should those anglers who pay to fish these waters exclusively have to buy a license?

I'm considering fishing a public water this year. It'l be the first time in years I dont resent paying for my license.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, greekskii said:

The agency can still check you on syndi waters though @yonny  

I believe Yonny already knows that, the question he is asking is why should he have to......and I agree! 

Its private property, privately owned, deals with all its own finances and maintenance programs and therefore in my opinion [censored] all to do with the ea.

 

Let me make this perfectly clear.....I DO pay for my rod licence (two rod) and if I ocaisionally fish a water that allows more rods I go online and buy a 24 hour licence to cover those rods.....but I resent it every time I pay it. As an angler I cannot see in anyway shape or form what the ea has ever done for me for the fee that I pay every year....I fish club waters that are maintained by the members and paid for (by club funds) contractors. The river that I fish is actually a privately owned canalised river so again can see what the e a have done for it....it’s looked after by volunteers from various angling clubs and boat owners.

 

i just think the big gripe with licence fee’s is that we don’t see what the ea does for the angler. A bit like the dvla really all we see is them taking money and don’t see anything in return.

as for the “you can call on them in emergencies” scenario great 👍🏻  put an invoice in and have it paid if and when the need arises. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, spr1985 said:

I believe Yonny already knows that, the question he is asking is why should he have to......and I agree! 

Its private property, privately owned, deals with all its own finances and maintenance programs and therefore in my opinion [censored] all to do with the ea.

 

Let me make this perfectly clear.....I DO pay for my rod licence (two rod) and if I ocaisionally fish a water that allows more rods I go online and buy a 24 hour licence to cover those rods.....but I resent it every time I pay it. As an angler I cannot see in anyway shape or form what the ea has ever done for me for the fee that I pay every year....I fish club waters that are maintained by the members and paid for (by club funds) contractors. The river that I fish is actually a privately owned canalised river so again can see what the e a have done for it....it’s looked after by volunteers from various angling clubs and boat owners.

 

i just think the big gripe with licence fee’s is that we don’t see what the ea does for the angler. A bit like the dvla really all we see is them taking money and don’t see anything in return.

as for the “you can call on them in emergencies” scenario great 👍🏻  put an invoice in and have it paid if and when the need arises. 

 

 

To run a fishery as a business you have to be registered with the EA. therefore they have everything to do with it. 

They publish how they spend the money on an annual basis. So you know exactly where it goes. 

I see these views from many people however they have no idea how the EA works internally whereas in my job I work with them and see exactly how money gets spent. They have a fund you can bid in to for fishery improvements. Including otter fencing. They money gets spent restocking the rivers. Doing habitat inmprovement schemes and paying for the enforcement officers to go and check licenses amongst a whole host of other things. 

Id to see it run as an invoiced help. Imagine them saving the stock of a small club and then hitting them with the £50,000 bill. You might never need them to help you personally. Same as the NHS. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rushed that end bit as I had a few bleeps...

we all pay for all sorts of things through tax but may never need it. NHS, welfare, etc. It's exactly the same situation. You pay for it but may never need to use that service. Thing is, we pay the rod licenses and the fisheries get the benefit if they need it. Free of charge. 

As I said. Many people don't understand the actual costs it takes to inject hydrogen peroxide in to a lake to save the fish. Or true costs of hot footing a number of aerators across the country. The license money also pays for the fish health team in Brampton. You can send a mortality to them and they'll carry out a post mortem free of charge and if it's a disease that's needs treating they'll help you save your stock. 

Im done. Back to fishing. Really grinds my gears when people don't have a clue. The EA fisheries are the only ones not charging for licenses and permits. They don't charge for advice. Don't charge for saving fish in emergencies. They do however refuse to help commercials free of charge. They will advise them and help organise the necessary equipment. They will help free of charge smaller clubs with low incomes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I completely agree I don’t have a great idea on how they work, what I do know is I have been fishing for at least 23 years and I have never had my licence checked. I have never seen any works being carried out on local rivers or lakes and I can count on one hand how many times I have seen an ea vehicle and I travel all over the country on a weekly basis.

I think that if the efforts that they go to to do the things that they do where more in the public eye it would be far more widely understood why they exist and “what they do for me” as such.

i know about the funding and the links with the angling trust and how they try to further the sport and river stocking etc but that still doesn’t answer  the club/ syndicate question, if the club/syndicate is private and not asking for help from the ea why should you have to pay a licence fee to fish?....you shouldnt.  Clubs and syndicates have insurance and therefore if they needed to call on the ea the ea could invoice for the work the club/syndicate claims on insurance pays the invoice...job done 

but for anyone like me that has asked the question “what do they do for me” 

https://environmentagency.blog.gov.uk/2017/02/13/so-what-do-the-environment-agency-do-for-us/?utm_source=EA&utm_medium=email&utm_content=short_term-db&utm_campaign=Feb17

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every fishery is permitted by the EA to be a fishery. Therefore anyone fishing needs to be a license holder. I believe it's in the permit they have. 

Same as if you register your land as agricultural you are then subject to all sorts of rural obligations and also inspections and fines if required. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, spr1985 said:

I completely agree I don’t have a great idea on how they work, what I do know is I have been fishing for at least 23 years and I have never had my licence checked. I have never seen any works being carried out on local rivers or lakes and I can count on one hand how many times I have seen an ea vehicle and I travel all over the country on a weekly basis.

I think that if the efforts that they go to to do the things that they do where more in the public eye it would be far more widely understood why they exist and “what they do for me” as such.

i know about the funding and the links with the angling trust and how they try to further the sport and river stocking etc but that still doesn’t answer  the club/ syndicate question, if the club/syndicate is private and not asking for help from the ea why should you have to pay a licence fee to fish?....you shouldnt.  Clubs and syndicates have insurance and therefore if they needed to call on the ea the ea could invoice for the work the club/syndicate claims on insurance pays the invoice...job done 

but for anyone like me that has asked the question “what do they do for me” 

https://environmentagency.blog.gov.uk/2017/02/13/so-what-do-the-environment-agency-do-for-us/?utm_source=EA&utm_medium=email&utm_content=short_term-db&utm_campaign=Feb17

 

You may never have been checked in 23 years, but I actually got checked 5 years on the trot, and on more than one occasion in a year.

I was checked on my season ticket lake, a park lake and a stretch of the Lea. 

 

If a lake is syndicate and suddenly develops a problem, it will be the EA who reacts, although under your scenario they wouldn't need to, after all, your members can deal with it...

Or maybe the EA will bring an aerator in that you need, as fast as they can, and its done for free.

Some areas have a major problem, its not just fisheries and fish. Its dealing with fly tips in watercourses, although maybe your syndicate would be able to clear up the rubbish if they got tipped...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

If a lake is syndicate and suddenly develops a problem, it will be the EA who reacts, although under your scenario they wouldn't need to, after all, your members can deal with it...

A) you are miss qouting me 

b) I’m not on a syndicate (I was referring to syndicates in general)

c) that’s an opinion and not a fact! The ea do not always react example:- bayeswater had an oxygen crash Garry Bayes himself got an Aerator and got it into the lake within a couple of hours of the problem being realised....and then went on to instal a permanent Aerator powered by a windmill. 

Bayeswater had a weed issue in the shallows Gary again dealt with it himself out on the boat and put the treatment in

club lakes :- have a self funded otter fencing program no ea help

own Aerators that can be deployed to lakes as and when needed

have been fly tipped in entrances and car parks cleared themselves (members ) or paid for rubbish removal company to remove to the dump

 

and as side note

Salok as a well respected member of the forum and a moderator you should maybe read the entirety of someone’s posts on a subject before jumping down their throat because they express an opinion you disagree with (which is obvious in your response) also if you are going to take “my scenario” quote what I actually said.... you know the bit where I said if the ea’s help is required by a syndicate they could invoice them for the work 😉 

the scenario was “ if the club/syndicate is private and not asking for help from the ea why should you have to pay a licence fee to fish?....you shouldnt.”

Edited by spr1985

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was being slightly sarcastic:wink:

It was made to get you to see what the EA do, there is no distinction between syndicate, club or season ticket. I think you will find, Bayeswater had already been warned by the EA that the amount of weed could cause a potential oxygen crash. The aerator was already planned.

 

A syndicate local to me had the same issue with their water, and so did a club. The EA provided an aerator until the syndicates aerator was repaired. The local club chose to get committee members to de-weed the water.

 

In the Lea valley, a water had an oxygen crash after sudden rainfall cooled the water at spawning time. The EA did the post mortems for free, even though the Lea Valley have their own fishery manager.

 

Not being funny, but any club or day ticket water  that does not have otter fencing is a fool unto themselves. £100,000 on stock and £10000 on an otter fence. Don't fence it and you spend the same on stock again next year. To me that is not necessarily an EA problem, that is a fishery problem, but the EA are putting grant money to the fencing.

The EA will prosecute for a fly tip, members clearing it themselves means no prosecution can take place, or getting a private company to do it. The EA will investigate. 

 

I hold by my point, if you as a syndicate want immediate help from the EA, then you should pay for a licence for that help. A dog walker could see that lake 'explode', call the EA, and help is given.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

Not being funny, but any club or day ticket water  that does not have otter fencing is a fool unto themselves. £100,000 on stock and £10000 on an otter fence. Don't fence it and you spend the same on stock again next year. To me that is not necessarily an EA problem, that is a fishery problem, but the EA are putting grant money to the fencing.

 

Completely agree

11 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

The EA will prosecute for a fly tip, members clearing it themselves means no prosecution can take place, or getting a private company to do it. The EA will investigate. 

 

Didn’t know that but is useful to know :- as I have seen fly tipping near the river also

 

as for your initial provocation/ sarcasm 😝😝 I guess I bit as you knew I would 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The EA do more than the average joe knows about. 

Could you imagine the state things would be in if they didn't do anything. Imagine how many fisheries would be empty without the EA providing emergency response on a Sunday afternoon for free. Any consultant would be charging no less than £2-300 an hour + any equipment you require. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, spr1985 said:

Completely agree

Didn’t know that but is useful to know :- as I have seen fly tipping near the river also

 

as for your initial provocation/ sarcasm 😝😝 I guess I bit as you knew I would 

 

No worries, sometimes a bit of provocation gets you to expand on your opinions, I wanted you to open out a bit. No offence was intended:wink:

 

I think the amount we see of the EA varies across the country, and definitely in the number of bailiffs we see.

Admittedly the EA don't help themselves at times; a friend of mine was fishing a match on a Sunday on a river. A whole row of anglers, probably not all with a licence, maybe they all did, who knows. Anyway, he fished on the Monday, the only angler on the stretch, when it was tipping it down, in a peg that had thrown up a couple of big roach the day before when he was 'disturbed' by the bailiff. The bailiff commented about not checking licences the day before with 'we don't work on a Sunday'.

Do non licenced anglers not fish on a Sunday? 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm no fan of the EA volunteer officers as said before but i have also said it should be on the lake owners to ask for a licence and sell them where the lakes could do that. Funily enough it would be a problem for park lakes as a lot of them have ticket machines, means the ranger would have to check both when on their rounds.

The EA put a lot of work into park lakes, so it is only fair to have a licence if you fish parks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...