Jump to content

Method mix not breaking down


TheKingTench
 Share

Recommended Posts

So I've been doing some testing with vitalin and store bought method mix as I will be fishing the method this week. 

 

Cant seem to get the stuff to break down. In fact, the vitalin breaks down quicker than the store bought pellet mix. 

 

What am I doing wrong here? Do I even need it to break down completely?  

 

In need of advice, chaps. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, TheKingTench said:

So I've been doing some testing with vitalin and store bought method mix as I will be fishing the method this week. 

 

Cant seem to get the stuff to break down. In fact, the vitalin breaks down quicker than the store bought pellet mix. 

 

What am I doing wrong here? Do I even need it to break down completely?  

 

In need of advice, chaps. 

The Method was actually designed not to break down.

It was a hard not breaking down inner groundbait, with a softer outside layer.

Pellet mixes are usually quite oily, so in cold water won't break down as the oil just solidifies rather than bubbling and rising free. Vitalin which has no added oil will break down faster. Come away from the pellet mix, and go to a plain straight oil free mix, maybe something more nutty with no pellet. 

 

You don't need a groundbait mix to break down totally, unless you want a carpet on the lakebed. 

 

Groundbait is an interesting subject to me, different groundbaits and ingredients have different properties. Bream will take a still mix as they usually just hoover up on the lakebed. Roach, and pressured tench like an active mix that goes up and down as it hides the hookbait amongst the particles. Carp are a mix of the two, they will come to investigate particles being moved around by current, but once they find it will clear up the bottom.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, TheKingTench said:

Thanks for clearing this up, Nick!

I asked as I was told by a matchmen that you want the method bait to break down as quickly as possible, though I always believed the fish were meant to dig out the hookbait.

He's right in a way, in the outer layer. The inner layer you want hard, so the fish attack it to get fed.

 

CM makes another good point, a few 'free' casts first to get some bait out first. I do that in almost any fishing with groundbait in a feeder or around the lead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

He's right in a way, in the outer layer. The inner layer you want hard, so the fish attack it to get fed.

 

CM makes another good point, a few 'free' casts first to get some bait out first. I do that in almost any fishing with groundbait in a feeder or around the lead.

when i fish the feeder i have two buckets of mix, one is mixed to be compressed to a hard core and a dryer mix to over coat.

first mix is loaded and compressed as hard as i can get it then i put a thin layer in the loader with my hook bait and then the loaded feeder, this layer is pressed on just enough for the feeder to stay together.

the idea behind this is that the soft layer will slowly leech of giving some attraction, leading the fishy to the feeder and then a carp will bunt/smash at the hard bait to break it up and ****** at the bits as they come free.

one of these free bits will be your hooker and as the fish is snatching bits it wont be on the look out for bits of sharp wire, thus hopefully leading to a fish on the bank.

the method is a deadly style of angling on the day and has reversed many a blank for me. :lol:

match anglers fish the feeder in an entirely different way as they want the bait to give off max attraction and minimum feed so they mix it like damp dust to pull as many fish into the swim as possible as quickly as possible, you ever see a match angler stalking the big one??

edited to ask,,,, s n a t c h? really? :lol: a step TOO far Mr censor.

Edited by cyborx
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, cyborx said:

when i fish the feeder i have two buckets of mix, one is mixed to be compressed to a hard core and a dryer mix to over coat.

first mix is loaded and compressed as hard as i can get it then i put a thin layer in the loader with my hook bait and then the loaded feeder, this layer is pressed on just enough for the feeder to stay together.

the idea behind this is that the soft layer will slowly leech of giving some attraction, leading the fishy to the feeder and then a carp will bunt/smash at the hard bait to break it up and ****** at the bits as they come free.

one of these free bits will be your hooker and as the fish is snatching bits it wont be on the look out for bits of sharp wire, thus hopefully leading to a fish on the bank.

the method is a deadly style of angling on the day and has reversed many a blank for me. :lol:

match anglers fish the feeder in an entirely different way as they want the bait to give off max attraction and minimum feed so they mix it like damp dust to pull as many fish into the swim as possible as quickly as possible, you ever see a match angler stalking the big one??

edited to ask,,,, s n a t c h? really? :lol: a step TOO far Mr censor.

Strangely, it was match anglers who came up with the idea of a hard inner core, with the softer outer layer. The idea was food content was minimal in the outside layer, relying on that for attraction, and to cloud the water, the good stuff was in the inner layer which they wanted attacked. In fact it was almost a 3 layer attack. Hard ball of groundbait, with sweetcorn, bits and pieces stuck to it, for the fish to pick at, then the softer groundbait on top.

 

I used groundbait moulded around the lead a lot on Ardleigh, and it produced a number of good carp, as well as occasionally getting breamed out.

Not my only method of attack, but the one that produced most carp.

 

I didn't set this censor, was done by the control board😉

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, TheKingTench said:

I’ve heard vitalin can be quite filling (for fish) and can kill the swim by overfeeding. Might try and mix in some bread crumb and hemp seed, as I don’t want to feed the fish off.

 

Vitalin is a brilliant binder in its own right, as well as a 'plain' groundbait. It can be cut with breadcrumb, (brown will break down, white takes longer), particles or other ingredients. One of my favourite adds is ground dog biscuits, they add colour, oils and because some float, make the groundbait 'move'.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, TheKingTench said:

I’ve heard vitalin can be quite filling (for fish) and can kill the swim by overfeeding. Might try and mix in some bread crumb and hemp seed, as I don’t want to feed the fish off.

 

TBH i dont put particles in my method bait as it is just that,,,bait.

i toast bread slices, dog buscuits and oat flakes, liquidize to fine powder and add in baby formula milk, paprika, chilli powder and finely ground belechan.

This mix forms a cloud of attractant that can easily be seen from the bank, as a twist to this i sometimes spray the inside of the method mold with essential oils such as black seed oil, cinnamon or  tangerine oils, i carry a variety (10-15) of oils in my bag, my hook bait sits between the two layers on the feeder and is the only actual 'lump' in there.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, TheKingTench said:

Need to make the mix firmer anyway; kept coming of as soon as it hit the water. Bad casts were reeled in right away and not a single bit of bait was left on the feeder. Will use a firmer mid next time.

 

 

if you add liquid a little at a time mix well while fluffing it and squeeze a handfull every time, as soon as it stays in a ball its done.

dont for get to let it stand a while too, it must fully absorb any liquid so that it feels dry to the touch.

what style of feeder are you using?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, cyborx said:

if you add liquid a little at a time mix well while fluffing it and squeeze a handfull every time, as soon as it stays in a ball its done.

dont for get to let it stand a while too, it must fully absorb any liquid so that it feels dry to the touch.

what style of feeder are you using?

Korda Bait Up feeder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, TheKingTench said:

Korda Bait Up feeder

 

1 hour ago, cyborx said:

oh ok, never used one of those as i have an aversion to anything that starts with a Kapital K :wink:

i prefer the preston type with the mould, much easier to use IMO.

https://www.anglingdirect.co.uk/preston-in-line-flat-method-feeder

I'm the same, prefer to avoid Korda kr..........

 

I have Preston and Fox Method feeders, and one remaining original Emmstat feeder, which is actually what gets used most as I also use it for roach on Alton with an ordinary mix.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm the same. Not a big fan of Korda, but I find their end tackle to be of fairly good quality. I mostly like Fox, Korum and Drennan. 

 

I understand many peoples grip with Korda, and I for one absolutely hate this over-commercialisation of carp fishing. Prefer to refer to myself as a specimen angler, though labels need not really apply. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Korda do some very good tackle so regardless of what you think of the brand you shouldn't write their gear off IMO. I think they deserve a medal for their No-Trace Bead system. Biggest improvement in carp safety in ages. I also have no problem giving them my money when it ends up with Mr. F who, in Embryo, has done more for the future of carp angling than any other. I'm neither a fan nor a knocker, but I give credit where it's due.

Anyway.... groundbait..... no idea lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, yonny said:

Korda do some very good tackle

Agreed.  I have a couple of the little tackle/rig boxes, very small and compact and I like their "line saver beads" for naked chod or heli rigs........ I think you have to be at a certain stage in your fishing to know "exactly" what you need. Otherwise you can be taken in by their marketing machine and be fooled into thinking that you need the lot. The no trace beads, good concept, but I find that a standard tapered bead with a small section of stiff rig material to hold it in place is good enough, and you won't lose the bead unless you are cut off..... Not sure you can buy the actual beads separately from Korda, you need to buy the whole little system, money maker for them. If any company truely had fish welfare at the forefront, they would be giving these sort of things away for free with any larger purchase, or selling these particular items for non profit, they cost pence to make. Don't get me wrong, they have some good angling brains behind most of their bits, but it's all about the ££££££'s. ... As mentioned, I do buy some of their stuff, but I always feel like I've overpaid.

Groundbait?....... Could do with a recipe if anyones got one.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, B.C. said:

Not sure you can buy the actual beads separately from Korda

Yes you can buddy.

5 minutes ago, B.C. said:

If any company truely had fish welfare at the forefront, they would be giving these sort of things away for free with any larger purchase, or selling these particular items for non profit, they cost pence to make.

Oh come off it BC.... when was the last time you saw a business survive by giving their products away lol. Ultimately they are a business and their primary purpose, like any private business, is to generate profit.

10 minutes ago, B.C. said:

I do buy some of their stuff, but I always feel like I've overpaid.

We all overpay for everything from everyone. Price point is a marketing tool. Price is rarely calculated by adding up costs and whacking 20% on nowadays. It's just business mate. We don't have to buy this stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, yonny said:

Yes you can buddy.

Was told different at one of my locals last year, I stand corrected.

 

2 minutes ago, yonny said:

when was the last time you saw a business survive by giving their products away lol.

Just saying, that if fish safety was at the "forefront", these items would be sold at non profit, not at a loss..  They make enough money to make this possible without going bust, they are in a better position to do something like this than a lot of smaller firms. Even if it was a one off, for a few months, it would send out a good message and win a few people over. If I had his money (our money), it's something I would do... But then I'm not driven by cash or how many cars or lakes I own. At the end of the day, imo, they are after your cash. The fish safety side is a good smokescreen to get there hands on it. Most leading retailers have "lost leaders" to attract customers, they sell certain items at a loss to get people through the door/website. Mark ups are put onto other items... I think the fish safety side, has an element of "guilt trip" about it, if we aren't using these sort of things, which is a nice marketing tool for some..... Just my op.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, B.C. said:

Was told different at one of my locals last year, I stand corrected.

 

Just saying, that if fish safety was at the "forefront", these items would be sold at non profit, not at a loss..  They make enough money to make this possible without going bust, they are in a better position to do something like this than a lot of smaller firms. Even if it was a one off, for a few months, it would send out a good message and win a few people over. If I had his money (our money), it's something I would do... But then I'm not driven by cash or how many cars or lakes I own. At the end of the day, imo, they are after your cash. The fish safety side is a good smokescreen to get there hands on it. Most leading retailers have "lost leaders" to attract customers, they sell certain items at a loss to get people through the door/website. Mark ups are put onto other items... I think the fish safety side, has an element of "guilt trip" about it, if we aren't using these sort of things, which is a nice marketing tool for some..... Just my op.

For years Dave Chilton made sure Kryston Klinik was sold at cost so that as many anglers as possible used and treated hookholds.

 

On 7 February 2018 at 09:44, cyborx said:

TBH i dont put particles in my method bait as it is just that,,,bait.

i toast bread slices, dog buscuits and oat flakes, liquidize to fine powder and add in baby formula milk, paprika, chilli powder and finely ground belechan.

This mix forms a cloud of attractant that can easily be seen from the bank, as a twist to this i sometimes spray the inside of the method mold with essential oils such as black seed oil, cinnamon or  tangerine oils, i carry a variety (10-15) of oils in my bag, my hook bait sits between the two layers on the feeder and is the only actual 'lump' in there.

 

Vitalin mixed with ground dog biscuits, bread crumb, particles and molasses is one of mine. If you add porridge oats, it does cloud up nicely. 

 

Hardest part with any groundbait is getting it to break down as you want it, so after I have left it after mixing, I do usually chuck a ball in the margins to check it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, salokcinnodrog said:

For years Dave Chilton made sure Kryston Klinik was sold at cost so that as many anglers as possible used and treated hookholds.

That's the sort of thing I mean, Kryston never went bust because of it... I won't bang on about it as it can turn into a negative conversation, but I won't be fooled into thinking that fish welfare is paramount to any decent sized company, ahead of profits. Unless they start offering these items at cost price. Makes perfect sense from an angling point of view imo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, salokcinnodrog said:

For years Dave Chilton made sure Kryston Klinik was sold at cost so that as many anglers as possible used and treated hookholds.

 

Vitalin mixed with ground dog biscuits, bread crumb, particles and molasses is one of mine. If you add porridge oats, it does cloud up nicely. 

 

Hardest part with any groundbait is getting it to break down as you want it, so after I have left it after mixing, I do usually chuck a ball in the margins to check it. 

bread, oats and formula are mostly there as carriers for the attractant in the spices, the dog biscuits and the crumb will mostly stay around your hook bait and add a little bulk but they also float up through the water layers. from a tennis ball size lump i have seen a cloud as large as 6 to 8 ft across.

another sweet trick is to add a half cup of baking soda to the dry mix, you should see that fizz :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, yonny said:

I do see your point lads but imo there is not a board member worth his salt at any company that would approve selling products at cost. It avoids the point of the very existence of a business.

ha!! i have been in business for years Yonny, ask any builder how much discount they get on most tools, plant and vehicles.

most will say about 50%, it can go up to 75 or even 100% on some goods.

if a tree surgeon walked onto the trade counter and said he wanted to purchase 10 chainsaws he would only pay for 5, but as we received over 75% from the manufacturers it was win win, it all revolves around turnover the more we ordered from the manufacturers the cheaper/more perks we got, the more we passed on and the more profit we made.

using that exact template i helped take a startup from one little industrial unit to the largest supplier of tools and plant in central England in 5 years.

similarly with DF and co, they buy the stuff from China in bulk for pence but instead of charging a reasonable price (say a mark up of 500%) that would still ensure that they were pence for ten or so they plumb for massive profit margins of 1000+% and to my mind that is just pure greed and also why i mostly use smaller companies for my gear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...