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jh92

Unfenced lakes

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14 hours ago, carpmachine said:

Okay, this has turned into a cracking thread, so i am going to ask Frank another question that puzzles me, going on from what you have said about growth days, why is it that some carp are caught at their biggest weight during the depths of winter. My theory, there to be knocked down is that whilst natural food is present , they prefer to eat just that, but during Winter they take whatever is going, also i beleive that some carp never take anglers bait, but the puzzler for me is why known fish that come out all year get caught at higher weights in winter, less growth days and less food around.

A bear in winter hibernation weighs more than an active bear. 

Basically what yonny said is the answer. They pile on weight before winter and then are very sedentary and don't burn it off. It is used slowly over winter to keep them going and then to produce eggs before winter is out. 

 

10 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

Do the colder winters where the carp are under the ice and warmer summers affect the growth rates in any way?

Yes. There is less growth in winter. This can be seen when reading scales for age data. There are tighter bands where there is less growth (winter) and more spaced out bands during growth period (summer). So you can work out an age based on how many winters the fish has been alive. The banding on the scales would likely be more prominent when the winters are harsh and the summers are very warm too. There would likely be rapid growth in the summer months and hardly any over winter, as is the case normally but this would be above average and below average. 

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22 hours ago, carpmachine said:

Okay, this has turned into a cracking thread, so i am going to ask Frank another question that puzzles me, going on from what you have said about growth days, why is it that some carp are caught at their biggest weight during the depths of winter. My theory, there to be knocked down is that whilst natural food is present , they prefer to eat just that, but during Winter they take whatever is going, also i beleive that some carp never take anglers bait, but the puzzler for me is why known fish that come out all year get caught at higher weights in winter, less growth days and less food around.

Its quite simple really, adult carp are at their lightest straight after spawning, not just because they have shed spawn / milt, but with all the excursions they lose body condition. They then set about eating and what they eat is important, remember this is normally the start to mid summer, naturally the food would be in the for of various natural fauna, all very high in protein and little else, this soon builds muscle and supplies the carp with any energy  it may need it is at this point that the carp gains any AVERAGE annual weight gain[if it is gaining at all][this is why I believe in High Usable Protein bait.]

By this time it is the end of Summer and heading into Autumn and this is where my own experiments taught me something new that is not normally seen in print and differs somewhat with what some people preach.                                                                                                                                        The carp start eating natural flora, this gives them carbohydrates that not only gives them the energy they need but lays down fat reserves that help them over the coming months.                                        As the autumn progresses and goes into winter the carps diet slowly changes into a high protein diet again, but far less that eaten in the warmer months, sometimes eating is so infrequent one might believe they don't feed at all, this is brought on by the cold water slowing down their metabolism and a lack of food also due to cold, it then becomes worthless for the carp to search out food expending valuable energy.                                                                                                                                             That energy is better utilised by converting it into Spawn/Milt, now dependent on each individual fish, this could be the point at which it is at its heaviest, or sometime later in others when the spawn has begun to expand somewhat.

You are then into spring and the water warming up, the carp then starts to burn the last of its fat reserves off as energy looking for food, if it finds enough, it wont lose weight, but if it finds it difficult it will lose condition using its one muscle for energy and the spawning process.                                    Then the whole cycle begins again.                                                                          

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4 minutes ago, levigsp said:

By this time it is the end of Summer and heading into Autumn and this is where my own experiments taught me something new that is not normally seen in print and differs somewhat with what some people preach. The carp start eating natural flora, this gives them carbohydrates that not only gives them the energy they need but lays down fat reserves that help them over the coming months.

I've seen things that would support that.

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19 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

Frank, 

Do the colder winters where the carp are under the ice and warmer summers affect the growth rates in any way?

I recall or seem to think, some of those countries its ice covered, then almost 2 days later ice free, and up in the high teens degrees Celsius. 

Also in that our English method of carp fishing as it has emigrated across the globe has given rise to bigger carp being able to be landed?

Or is this my imagination running wild...

Nick in waters fished little, the carp will do better with very cold winter so it is not expending energy that it cannot replace, that's one of the main reasons carp do well in Europe.

However if its a fished lake with plenty of feed going in, the carp can replace energy, so milder weather helps them, so in the Uk this is a better bet for the carp as mostly we don't get it cold enough, so the carp is looking for feed that is difficult to find unless put there by anglers.

You are right in that the English method of carp fishing has resulted in bigger carp being caught in the rest of the world.

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I see Baden hall fishery has been getting hit by otters , there kidding them selves at the numbers of reported lost fish . They would have lost a lot of the big fish no doubt.  Apparently they've been hiding the fact until an angler went public with a video,  still taking anglers money  who were  fishing for ghosts.  

Like I've been saying if it ain't fenced you need to think seriously about whether it's worth your time & hard earned .

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On 12/02/2019 at 17:57, chillfactor said:

I see Baden hall fishery has been getting hit by otters , there kidding them selves at the numbers of reported lost fish . They would have lost a lot of the big fish no doubt.  Apparently they've been hiding the fact until an angler went public with a video,  still taking anglers money  who were  fishing for ghosts.  

Like I've been saying if it ain't fenced you need to think seriously about whether it's worth your time & hard earned .

I've been walking the canal and river a lot over the last few months and haven't seen anything really except a few pike in the margins. Even spoke to a few anglers saying otters are about down there. 

Anyway I walked a stretched of canal last night and it seemed alive, loads of small fish breaking the surface with a few big splashes as well. Makes me wonder if I should try again down there or not. There are still fish there but so are the otters lol. 

 

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If there's fish there give it a go while there still present,  I think the otter numbers makes the real difference & while there still visiting various waters. What I think is happening around me now , is fish are getting thin in numbers so the kills per visit escalated massively this winter because of it .

Tight lines 

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On 20 February 2019 at 06:22, jh92 said:

I've been walking the canal and river a lot over the last few months and haven't seen anything really except a few pike in the margins. Even spoke to a few anglers saying otters are about down there. 

Anyway I walked a stretched of canal last night and it seemed alive, loads of small fish breaking the surface with a few big splashes as well. Makes me wonder if I should try again down there or not. There are still fish there but so are the otters lol. 

 

I can't remember if I have said it on this thread, but foxes will take otter kills after otters are finished with it. Foxes tend to drag and cache the kill. They tend not to eat in 'public'.

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On 12/02/2019 at 17:57, chillfactor said:

I see Baden hall fishery has been getting hit by otters , there kidding them selves at the numbers of reported lost fish . They would have lost a lot of the big fish no doubt.  Apparently they've been hiding the fact until an angler went public with a video,  still taking anglers money  who were  fishing for ghosts.  

Like I've been saying if it ain't fenced you need to think seriously about whether it's worth your time & hard earned .

Believe the head bayiff  left aswell  and hinted at an otter problem as was spoken about it on the carp cast. 

My both  the club near me appear to be burying there head un the sand with otters.  There has only been one confirmed otter  body found but still 

If the  any if my waters get uttered it shall be a sign to get a set of golf bats

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Changed them summertime, they only work when I get them out n pack em away. 

Tough Syndi runs out end of March. New venue for June open season, may finally get to see them n action,

possibly upgraded to 4 mag. Although I'm one of those that takes something apart and for some unknown reason it never quite goes back together!! 😂 Might get local tackle shop on the case. Excuse pun

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Another visit to the farm pond last night , shouldn't think there be anything left in there in a few weeks . It would appear that there's no fishing local for me anymore . Make the most of what you've got lads before it's gone . Just a matter of time .  

How can this be Natural England !!! 

Perhaps we need to do what farmers have done in the past , & take trailers full of dead fish & dump them at the gates at Downing street . These E petitions are a waste of time . 

 

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1 hour ago, chillfactor said:

Another visit to the farm pond last night , shouldn't think there be anything left in there in a few weeks . It would appear that there's no fishing local for me anymore . Make the most of what you've got lads before it's gone . Just a matter of time .  

How can this be Natural England !!! 

Perhaps we need to do what farmers have done in the past , & take trailers full of dead fish & dump them at the gates at Downing street . These E petitions are a waste of time . 

 

Sad times mate.

Not trying to make a joke out of it but if you ever want a change of scenery you can always have a day with me on my urban paradise. 

Theres a few predators knocking about but not the furry kind .

 

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Just a real shame mate... no more just nipping out for a fish me , will have to be planned visits to fenced lakes.  Feel more gutted for my boy really it was ideal having the farm pond & the little stretch of river just to take him for a few hours with minimal tackle . His fishing as he grows up will be planned & a journey , he's going to miss out on that spontaneous dangle of a rod that so many memories stem from . 

Mate would love to meet up at some point we've been trying for years now lol 😎

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There's a hush, hush water near me which holds approx 50 fish, a handful of which are big old originals (the biggest goes 50 lb), very special fish. It's not fenced and it's parts of a canal system. I know for a fact that otters are present on the canal (I've seen one) and that they hit this water last year, which obviously means this year too. I'll barely get to fish this next couple of years due to the little'n but when I do get the odd morning/evening free it'll be spent on this water. It's basically a race against time (which is less than ideal considering I have no time lol)..... if it's not too late already. I now the biggun was still there last year but who knows what's happened this winter eh?

Nightmare situation. Fishing for a fish that might not be there. Normally it hurts me when one of my targets is caught but in this case every capture will be music to my ears.

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In other news, I've heard today that a trout water in the Nene Valley has just stocked £20,000 worth of VS Fisheries stockies with the aim of turning it into a carp fishery with no plans to fence! This is in one of the hottest areas of the UK for otters, just a few miles away from one of the old illegal otter release sites. You couldn't make it up. It has held carp over the years and they were all ottered. All the unprotected waters around it have been ottered. It is literally otter central... and they think they can just fill it full of carp, charge 25 quid a day, and sit back.

It wont last 5 minutes imo. 

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The penny just isn't dropping with people yonny . I think we lost roughly 30 fish this winter from that private lake we drained a couple of months back (a real eye opener ) we moved the few that were left to  small farm ponds,  one of which is ours & the other was 4-5 miles from the lake the fish in the other farm pond didn't last a week , & the ones here are getting done the better ones are defo gone already, we must be over run with them around me as the fish have just disappeared in alarming numbers from all the little streams & rivers not to mention the lakes dotted about   . Those 20 grand of fish will be gone in no time , with what your saying about the area . 

Some can see what's going to happen if they aren't pro active .... look at korda ! 

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As angler's who love the fish & wildlife in general, we must take steps to safeguard the natural balance of nature.

It definitely sounds like this predator is a threat that cannot be ignored.... 

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32 minutes ago, yonny said:

I honestly couldn't believe what I was hearing when I was told this.

They'll learn the hard (and expensive) way.

No doubt mate... they've basically paid 20 grand to give other local waters a few less visits a month ! 

 

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26 minutes ago, commonly said:

As angler's who love the fish & wildlife in general, we must take steps to safeguard the natural balance of nature.

It definitely sounds like this predator is a threat that cannot be ignored.... 

Frank ,has touched on it before & It rang true with what I think is  happening around me  , these otters are not territorial they've been reared with other otters , lots of them at that in big open fenced pens . Wild otters would fight each other to the death to keep there territory , survival of the fittest & all that . This new population seem happy to feed along side each other as that's what they know & it's obvious it's been passed on to the next generations  , hence how quickly a lake can be emptied,  well that's my take on it around me . We are in an area where the legal reintroduction is taking place . 

Like you say nothing natural about it .

 

 

Edited by chillfactor

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On 12/03/2019 at 21:19, chillfactor said:

Just a real shame mate... no more just nipping out for a fish me , will have to be planned visits to fenced lakes.  Feel more gutted for my boy really it was ideal having the farm pond & the little stretch of river just to take him for a few hours with minimal tackle . His fishing as he grows up will be planned & a journey , he's going to miss out on that spontaneous dangle of a rod that so many memories stem from . 

Mate would love to meet up at some point we've been trying for years now lol 😎

I know mate. 

As usual my fishing has taken a backseat to life at the moment.

But i reckon i could get a nice little end of summer - autumn session in.

 

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