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smufter

Do I go back to my mate's cheap boilies??????

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Chatting to an old mate of mine yesterday, he makes his own boilies and sells them for £5.00 a kilo.

I had great success when I first started using them, cleaning up at Stream Valley in Crowborough on his Coconut Cell "smell-a-likes", and also used some of his fishmeal boilies to good effect. I even caught my UK pb (37lb Common) from a notoriously difficult water on the old "Coconuts" and hooked into an even bigger one using them a week or two later, so I know they "work" and obviously attract fish.

I asked him a few times over the years what he actually put in them, he did tell me, but not being that clued up on additives etc. I didn't really take much notice. The only thing I assumed what that at a fiver a kilo, it couldn't have been as good as the stuff that was going in Mainline, Sticky or other well known makes.

Thing is, you get caught up in hype and marketing, so I moved away from using his stuff once I started to fish more difficult waters in the hope that the perceived higher quality ingredients would improve my catch rates. It hasn't!!

I've now settled on ABS as my bait of choice, but what would you do. Give his old coconut boilies a bash for old times sake, or stick with what you're doing.

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5 minutes ago, smufter said:

The only thing I assumed what that at a fiver a kilo, it couldn't have been as good as the stuff that was going in other well known makes.

It's to do with mark-up and middlemen, each step will try to double up, so when they get to a shop at £5.00 / Kg (for example), they will try to sell them at £10.00 per Kg.

As pointed out on another thread, price isn't necessarily dictated by cost price, so I'm just using the above numbers for simplicity. So yes your mate can produce and sell an effective boilie for £5.00 per Kg, the ingredients and purchasing power will dictate how much he makes on them, so if he's hand making them, he's undercharging you IMO.

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Well I guess your mate's coconut boilies are cheaper than ABS , you don't have to pay a delivery charge and you can pick them up quickly .

If the ABS boilies aren't firmly established at White Cottage , and you are starting fresh maybe you could start off with the coconut boilies , putting in some as you leave and see how they are received .

:)

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Been through this before and as Ianain says, manufacturer to middleman, mark-up, middleman to tackle shop, mark-up. A bait company direct to the angler is likely to be at least one third cheaper.

 

Personally, I don't think that having seen the ingredients list for Mainline Cell, that it is that good a bait. I have put them up on here in the past.

While there are sone birdfoods in there, the bait breaks down fairly quickly, and is reliant pretty much on one ingredient.

There are most definitely better baits available from  most other companies, as well as Mainline, I think Grange is a whole lot better.

 

I honestly think a decent food source bait, over long term, will catch a whole lot more fish than a ball of semolina and attractors, and confidence in a bait is very important. You have faith in a bait, you know it works, use it. 

 

 

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11 hours ago, crusian said:

Well I guess your mate's coconut boilies are cheaper than ABS , you don't have to pay a delivery charge and you can pick them up quickly .

If the ABS boilies aren't firmly established at White Cottage , and you are starting fresh maybe you could start off with the coconut boilies , putting in some as you leave and see how they are received .

:)

Had a chat to him yesterday... he's going to knock me up a couple of kilo of coconuts to bang in the freezer, and I will give them a try next week. Also discussed bait for my French trip in July. I was going to take a fishmeal with me, with a hint of fruit in it. He can supply me Tuna with either Plum or Orange in it for the same fiver a kilo. He bought my old brolly off me, and still owes me the money for it, so 12 kilo of bait will square us up and bait sorted. 

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I'd use him again. They worked didn't they. I did a similar thing a few years ago. Used the bait company I'm with now and had my PB and a lake record within 2 months plus a few others. Then due to holidays from both of us I couldn't resupply in time so got some solar bait on a deal and then ccmoore stuff. Catch rates plummeted. I'm now back with responsive and doing very well on it and trust it fully. Any of the baits in the range. I regret my foolishness as I probably missed out on a lot of fish using inferior baits. 

It could be the key to unlocking white cottage. Who knows. For France I'd defo be using it. Personally tuna and orange, not plum. 

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On 3/10/2018 at 16:07, smufter said:

I asked him a few times over the years what he actually put in them, he did tell me, but not being that clued up on additives etc. I didn't really take much notice.......

.....what would you do. Give his old coconut boilies a bash for old times sake, or stick with what you're doing.

I'd ask about the content again, do a little research, and make a decision based on that.

IMO, in the nicest possible way (of course), you're a bloomin' nutter Smufter. You've just spent the last year chopping and changing between baits catching next to nothing. You finally found a bait you like (Plan B I believe? (GREAT bait!!)), and caught on it, almost immediately, from a water you've struggled with for a year, in the middle of winter (!!!), and now 2 or 3 weeks later you're on about changing???

Imho you will never reach that point where you believe you'll catch on every single trip if you're constantly changing things, especially bait.

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31 minutes ago, yonny said:

IMO, in the nicest possible way (of course), you're a bloomin' nutter Smufter. You've just spent the last year chopping and changing between baits catching next to nothing. You finally found a bait you like (Plan B I believe? (GREAT bait!!)), and caught on it, almost immediately, from a water you've struggled with for a year, in the middle of winter (!!!), and now 2 or 3 weeks later you're on about changing???

Imho you will never reach that point where you believe you'll catch on every single trip if you're constantly changing things, especially bait.

He is right, at some point the pieces of the jigsaw must start to fall in to place. Bait is key. find something you are confident in and keep using it! stop changing. 

Confidence in rigs and bait means every time you turn up you only have to worry about locating the fish and fishing properly. The less pieces you need to fit together the better. 

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1 hour ago, yonny said:

 You finally found a bait you like (Plan B I believe? (GREAT bait!!)), and caught on it, almost immediately, from a water you've struggled with for a year, in the middle of winter (!!!), and now 2 or 3 weeks later you're on about changing???

Ah yes Yonny. But how many more might I have caught had I been using my mates Coconut boilies from the start????

:lol::lol::lol:

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2 hours ago, yonny said:

I'd ask about the content again, do a little research, and make a decision based on that.

IMO, in the nicest possible way (of course), you're a bloomin' nutter Smufter. You've just spent the last year chopping and changing between baits catching next to nothing. You finally found a bait you like (Plan B I believe? (GREAT bait!!)), and caught on it, almost immediately, from a water you've struggled with for a year, in the middle of winter (!!!), and now 2 or 3 weeks later you're on about changing???

Imho you will never reach that point where you believe you'll catch on every single trip if you're constantly changing things, especially bait.

Bang on....... I didn't like to say it myself......

Deffo find out what's in your mates bait, and at what levels if possible........ You could always get him to add a little something to it for you, for 50p / £1 a kilo more. if you are worried about the overall quality.......

Trouble is Smuft, we are just entering, what is usually, a very productive time of year catch wise. So imo, you may get a false impression of any bait you switch to , thinking it's the Bees Knees , when in reality the fish are on the munch.... Personally I'd persevere with the bait you are using....... The main , slight problem, you have, is pre booking swims imo ( I think you mentioned pre booking swims before on this water, but correct me if I'm wrong)... Doesn't matter how good you think a bait is, you need to be on the fish to reap the rewards......... Just my op mate' :)

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On 10/03/2018 at 16:07, smufter said:

Chatting to an old mate of mine yesterday, he makes his own boilies and sells them for £5.00 a kilo.

I had great success when I first started using them, cleaning up at Stream Valley in Crowborough on his Coconut Cell "smell-a-likes", and also used some of his fishmeal boilies to good effect. I even caught my UK pb (37lb Common) from a notoriously difficult water on the old "Coconuts" and hooked into an even bigger one using them a week or two later, so I know they "work" and obviously attract fish.

I asked him a few times over the years what he actually put in them, he did tell me, but not being that clued up on additives etc. I didn't really take much notice. The only thing I assumed what that at a fiver a kilo, it couldn't have been as good as the stuff that was going in Mainline, Sticky or other well known makes.

Thing is, you get caught up in hype and marketing, so I moved away from using his stuff once I started to fish more difficult waters in the hope that the perceived higher quality ingredients would improve my catch rates. It hasn't!!

I've now settled on ABS as my bait of choice, but what would you do. Give his old coconut boilies a bash for old times sake, or stick with what you're doing.

Dude - Mainline and Sticky are you for real.  Mainline is made for just over a Euro per Kilo in Europe, kinda shows how s h i t e it is!!!

Only small bait companies  who do not supply through shops can make good bait with expensive ingredients, everyone else is selling you rubbish - backed up by pure hype

Proper bait contains expensive ingredients meaning it cannot be sold cheaply through retail outlets

Main point however is as Yonny says, you will only struggle if you swap from this to that, been there done that it doesn't work.

 

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9 hours ago, smufter said:

Ah yes Yonny. But how many more might I have caught had I been using my mates Coconut boilies from the start????

:lol::lol::lol:

Roll on tomorrow .

Wouldn't it be funny if you catch on the coconut  Smufter , what then :? .

:D 

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25 minutes ago, crusian said:

Wouldn't it be funny if you catch on the coconut  Smufter , what then :? .

The important things is that smuft is going to catch; everything is prepared: the thread, the venue, the tackle, the bait, the method, the experience and the confidence :)

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7 hours ago, crusian said:

Roll on tomorrow .

Wouldn't it be funny if you catch on the coconut  Smufter , what then :? .

:D 

It would be a miracle. I'm using Plan b.......:lol::lol:

(he's had to order some new ingredients so the Coconut won't be ready until the end of the week).

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16 hours ago, yonny said:

Honestly, if I was you @smufter, I'd have already filled my freezer full of Plan B and I'd be worrying about the next piece of the puzzle.

I have :lol::lol::lol:

But I could just about fit a couple of kilos of Coconut in the very far corner. If I'm careful.... :wink::wink::wink: 

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7 hours ago, ianain said:

The important things is that smuft is going to catch; everything is prepared: the thread, the venue, the tackle, the bait, the method, the experience and the confidence :)

6 out of 7 isn't bad mate.

:lol:

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16 hours ago, B.C. said:

The main , slight problem, you have, is pre booking swims imo ( I think you mentioned pre booking swims before on this water, but correct me if I'm wrong)... Doesn't matter how good you think a bait is, you need to be on the fish to reap the rewards......... Just my op mate' :)

Appreciate what you are saying BC, but that is only really a problem when the lake is full. During my last 4 or 5 sessions, I've been the only one on the bank, so I could have changed swims had I wanted to
A lot of the guys have their favourite swims, mine being "Back Pond". i enjoy fishing this one because of it's intimacy, and I feel I am getting to know it well. It's my 1st choice whenever I book up. I'm fishing it again today by the way!
A few weeks ago there was another guy on who had booked "Bench". As he walked past "1st" he noticed that there was lots of fizzing and bubbling and as no-one else had booked it he changed his mind and fished there instead. He blanked!
I feel confident in Back Pond. The fact that I fish it regularly tells me that my bait is getting established as a food source in there, I have left little piles of bait in the margins and it is getting eaten so I know there are fish in there. The biggest problem I have is not being able to establish a proper pre-baiting routine. It's no good me pre-baiting a particular swim and finding I can't book it on the day I want to go and wet a line, so yes I can see what you mean about pre-booking swims being a problem sometimes. That's why I am sticking to my preferred swim.  


 
 

 

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4 hours ago, smufter said:

Appreciate what you are saying BC, but that is only really a problem when the lake is full. During my last 4 or 5 sessions, I've been the only one on the bank, so I could have changed swims had I wanted to
A lot of the guys have their favourite swims, mine being "Back Pond". i enjoy fishing this one because of it's intimacy, and I feel I am getting to know it well. It's my 1st choice whenever I book up. I'm fishing it again today by the way!
A few weeks ago there was another guy on who had booked "Bench". As he walked past "1st" he noticed that there was lots of fizzing and bubbling and as no-one else had booked it he changed his mind and fished there instead. He blanked!
I feel confident in Back Pond. The fact that I fish it regularly tells me that my bait is getting established as a food source in there, I have left little piles of bait in the margins and it is getting eaten so I know there are fish in there. The biggest problem I have is not being able to establish a proper pre-baiting routine. It's no good me pre-baiting a particular swim and finding I can't book it on the day I want to go and wet a line, so yes I can see what you mean about pre-booking swims being a problem sometimes. That's why I am sticking to my preferred swim.  


 
 

 

Sorry Smuft, I had the impression that the swims were booked in advance and you stuck to them. But as you say, you can move about if the lakes not busy..... As far as pre baiting goes, I've had similar problems on some of the club lakes I've fished, they are quite busy and it's pot luck sometimes on swim choice. I did the same as you on one lake, found a quiet corner that I liked the look of and perciviered with it. After a while a few fish came my way. I just made sure that a few handfuls of bait were kept trickling in all around the place, so they got used to finding it and having a safe snack.....

By the sounds of it, they are clearing out any bait you leave in the edge, I dare say that when the weather warms up and the fish are more active, you may catch them in the act, something I love watching.

Getting back to the OP though, It sounds to me that your current bait is doing it's job, they are eating it and you've caught on it........

On reflection my last post may have come across a bit neggy, didn't mean that, was just thinking out loud............

Good luck today mate..:)

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9 hours ago, smufter said:

I feel confident in Back Pond. The fact that I fish it regularly tells me that my bait is getting established as a food source in there, I have left little piles of bait in the margins and it is getting eaten so I know there are fish in there. The biggest problem I have is not being able to establish a proper pre-baiting routine. It's no good me pre-baiting a particular swim and finding I can't book it on the day I want to go and wet a line, so yes I can see what you mean about pre-booking swims being a problem sometimes. That's why I am sticking to my preferred swim.  

 

You know your current bait works, you are sure its being eaten, you have caught an absolute beauty, therefore stick with it. 

I know it is a bit sneaky, but can you prebait various spots around the lake, not  with the intention of fishing over it, but just so as many fish as possible 'get a taste for it'.

It does also mean that should you decide on a move or different swim then the fish are happy to accept it.

 

 

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2 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

You know your current bait works, you are sure its being eaten, you have caught an absolute beauty, therefore stick with it. 

I know it is a bit sneaky, but can you prebait various spots around the lake, not  with the intention of fishing over it, but just so as many fish as possible 'get a taste for it'.

It does also mean that should you decide on a move or different swim then the fish are happy to accept it.

 

 

perfect advice. Never have all your eggs in one basket. Feeding them in their safe places is a good start. A few handfuls on 10 spots on the lake ensures you can fish anywhere should you choose to or swims are booked. I'd try work out where no-one fishes to. Are the margins ignored in every swim? bait them. Is it an area in between swims that's ignored? bait it. 

I had success september - November fishing an area of open water that not one single person cast to before I saw a fish poke it's head out and flung a single at it. 19 fish over 10 nights including a lake record. 

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