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yonny

Would you rather........

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......... fish a water with 40% of the swims taken by good anglers or a water with 90% of the swims taken by poorer anglers??

Pointless discussion for a bit of fun really.....

Reason I ask is because when I fished Bluebell a couple of weeks ago I was dismayed to see so, so many anglers on when I turned up (standard day ticket really....). However, having had a mooch about, working out where the carp were and what they were up to, it rapidly became clear that:

A) Most guys didn't know where the carp were.

B) Very few guys were actually trying to find them.

C) Even fewer were actually acting once they spotted them (I think i saw one guy (other than myself) that moved onto fish all weekend).

In fact, I found it refreshingly easy to get on fish (albeit slotting in here and there). What's more, there were swims free on fish for the duration of the weekend I was there despite the lake being absolutely packed out!

On my syndi it's a different story; if you show up to a car park with more than 4 or 5 cars in it you just know you'll struggle to get on numbers of fish. Those anglers are on it.

Further to my observations over at Bluebell I saw several guys shipping bait boats out to the middle when the carp were clearly 20-30 yards in front of them. These guys were just going through the motions regardless of what the carp were up to. Of the anglers not using boats, maybe 80% of them were spodding big beds of bait into the middle when it was clear to me all weekend that none of it was getting touched (it's mega silty out there this year, feeding carp would stick out a million miles). These guys were not using their eyes and hence were not processing the info the carp were giving them. Most were just camping imo.

I don't think I could deal with the crowds for an entire season but I have no doubt any decent angler could tear these places apart over the course of a year. Almost tempted to have a pop.

So: 40% of the swims taken by good anglers or 90% of the swims taken by poorer anglers - your choice!!!

p.s. and you're not allowed to say 0% of swims taken on a hidden gem as we'd all take that lol......

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well now! given the info you have posted Yonny, it would be a no brainer.

i would take the pool where the local cowboys were herding the carp into a quiet area while they threshed the pool to foam.

personally i like to be somewhere quiet with maybe just a couple of other anglers but as you say, that can be detrimental to your fishing so in all it totally depends on what you want out of your day on the day.

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Tough one!

I do think you fish better when you have a limited choice of swims. You are forced to work that bit harder for your fish, especially if you don’t have a choice of any favourable swims. 

I would choose the 40% though. As if value the company and quietness and the fish that I could catch a lot more than having to deal with the masses. 

36 minutes ago, yonny said:

p.s. and you're not allowed to say 0% of swims taken on a hidden gem as we'd all take that lol....

I actually do get to fish like that for the foreseeable. And I don’t even have to worry about getting caught as I’m allowed to be there! 

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9 minutes ago, greekskii said:

I do think you fish better when you have a limited choice of swims. You are forced to work that bit harder for your fish, especially if you don’t have a choice of any favourable swims. 

I completely agree with you there buddy. I'd go so far as to say fishing highly pressured waters improves you as an angler. Once you have that mentality whereby you're prepared to act on the slightest signs your catch rate will soar. That's a fact.

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I just prefer the lower footfall on the lake so i will take the 40% all day long.

You have pretty much given the reason as to why no one was moving....Big beds of bait. if you put a big bed of bait out your less likely to mvoe, Especially once yove got your tablet set up so you can watch it from your bed.....

If i was putting a large amount of bait out i would be a bit hesitant to move, But what i would do is reel in and have a walk with a couple of rods to see if i can nick a bite through the day. If im catching i would move, If not i have rested my swim at the least.

Also its manly as fudge to cast to the middle of the lake......

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4 minutes ago, Ginger9991 said:

You have pretty much given the reason as to why no one was moving....Big beds of bait. if you put a big bed of bait out your less likely to mvoe

Good call buddy.

Personally I'll move off bait at the drop of a hat (and I did so when I was there). There's no point sitting on bait if nothing is feeding on it.

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Use the other anglers yonny, it's a sure fire way of getting onto fish. Most anglers even after finding fish ruin for themselves by making too much noise. Sneak in sneak out, :)

or do both, when the crowds get to you, go back on your syndi for a few sessions. At least you have a choice, that's the great thing about my ticket, there's a few waters, some harder than othere but I have choices :)

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17 minutes ago, Gazlaaar said:

Use the other anglers yonny, it's a sure fire way of getting onto fish. Most anglers even after finding fish ruin for themselves by making too much noise. Sneak in sneak out, :)

One thing I did notice on Bluebell was that the fish aint bothered one bit by disturbance. They're so used to guys spodding on their heads that they don't mind it at all. At one point I was spodding floaters literally on top of a group of carp, close enough to hit them, and they weren't bothered in the slightest. Kiss of death on my syndi that is. What they lack in fear of disturbance they make up for in fear of hookbaits however.... they were so cagey on the feed, as cagey as I've seen.

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2 hours ago, yonny said:

One thing I did notice on Bluebell was that the fish aint bothered one bit by disturbance. They're so used to guys spodding on their heads that they don't mind it at all. At one point I was spodding floaters literally on top of a group of carp, close enough to hit them, and they weren't bothered in the slightest. Kiss of death on my syndi that is. What they lack in fear of disturbance they make up for in fear of hookbaits however.... they were so cagey on the feed, as cagey as I've seen. 

I always think that the more disturbance/anglers then the more edgy the fish become. So even if you can get on them, and they're in plain view or even feeding, they are so on edge, catching them is not a formality...… For me, I prefer fewer anglers about, I'll enjoy a session more if this is the case. If I'm enjoying the session, I will probably fish better, which will increase my chances, even with fewer fish in front of me.... And anything I spot will be behaving more naturally, a few mental notes that will benefit me long term...……. Think you did well to nick one on such a busy venue at such a busy time

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6 hours ago, yonny said:

......... fish a water with 40% of the swims taken by good anglers or a water with 90% of the swims taken by poorer anglers??

Pointless discussion for a bit of fun really.....

Reason I ask is because when I fished Bluebell a couple of weeks ago I was dismayed to see so, so many anglers on when I turned up (standard day ticket really....). However, having had a mooch about, working out where the carp were and what they were up to, it rapidly became clear that:

A) Most guys didn't know where the carp were.

B) Very few guys were actually trying to find them.

C) Even fewer were actually acting once they spotted them (I think i saw one guy (other than myself) that moved onto fish all weekend).

In fact, I found it refreshingly easy to get on fish (albeit slotting in here and there). What's more, there were swims free on fish for the duration of the weekend I was there despite the lake being absolutely packed out!

On my syndi it's a different story; if you show up to a car park with more than 4 or 5 cars in it you just know you'll struggle to get on numbers of fish. Those anglers are on it.

Further to my observations over at Bluebell I saw several guys shipping bait boats out to the middle when the carp were clearly 20-30 yards in front of them. These guys were just going through the motions regardless of what the carp were up to. Of the anglers not using boats, maybe 80% of them were spodding big beds of bait into the middle when it was clear to me all weekend that none of it was getting touched (it's mega silty out there this year, feeding carp would stick out a million miles). These guys were not using their eyes and hence were not processing the info the carp were giving them. Most were just camping imo.

I don't think I could deal with the crowds for an entire season but I have no doubt any decent angler could tear these places apart over the course of a year. Almost tempted to have a pop.

So: 40% of the swims taken by good anglers or 90% of the swims taken by poorer anglers - your choice!!!

p.s. and you're not allowed to say 0% of swims taken on a hidden gem as we'd all take that lol......

How many fish were caught in the end and by whom? 

Or was everyone just going through the motions lol

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29 minutes ago, framey said:

How many fish were caught in the end and by whom? 

Or was everyone just going through the motions lol

I has 2 and another fella had 1. That's it lol.

1 hour ago, B.C. said:

I always think that the more disturbance/anglers then the more edgy the fish become. 

Agree mate. A fish that knows it's being fished for is 100 times harder to catch imo.

Edited by yonny

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2 minutes ago, Gazlaaar said:

Problem is yonny, how do you get the fish to feel safe in such a busy environment? 

With difficulty lol

2 minutes ago, Gazlaaar said:

I bet the margins are ignored 

Agree, and I hear those that don't have had the odd fish.

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Their behaviour isn't too dissimilar to boating lakes. Normally the moorings are off limits to anglers and you'll often find fish in these areas even when there's a lot of noise and disturbance, purely because of the lack of angling pressure. I'm not surprised to see the fish seem happy being in amongst spodding. The less of two evils I suppose, and they do learn by association.

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Actually, I wonder if anyone has ever thought of attaching a hooklink to a spomb, set up. When the spomb opens it would release you hookbait in amongst the free offerings. Length of rig would depend how deep you want to fish. The set up could be like a heli set up, but instead of a lead, you have a spomb.

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If the water was that crowded I'd turn round and go home... there's always some winkle that wants to cast into your water, or plot up too close on arrival, or complain you are on their bait when you cast out...

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Just now, Gazlaaar said:

Actually, I wonder if anyone has ever thought of attaching a hooklink to a spomb, set up. When the spomb opens it would release you hookbait in amongst the free offerings. Length of rig would depend how deep you want to fish. The set up could be like a heli set up, but instead of a lead, you have a spomb.

I'm pretty sure I've seen this on a video before.

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I used to love it on Brackens when it got crowded and I could dive into Pig Pen corner. If there were more than four anglers on the lake, Pig Pen used to be the hidey hole, an undercut bank right in the corner was the place to put your baits.

 

Even on Taverham when it was crowded, I knew spots where I could almost guarantee to catch, and they were rarely into the main lake.

 

I understand Bluelabel's point, but on both of those lakes mentioned, there were those areas where no-one else could cast into. Sneaking a bait quietly into place would catch. 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Gazlaaar said:

Their behaviour isn't too dissimilar to boating lakes. Normally the moorings are off limits to anglers and you'll often find fish in these areas even when there's a lot of noise and disturbance, purely because of the lack of angling pressure. I'm not surprised to see the fish seem happy being in amongst spodding. The less of two evils I suppose, and they do learn by association.

I have actually caught on Nazeing when a motor boat was over my bait. Yet spod and they can disappear totally, although one fish in particular does seem to get caught over beds of bait.

 

I must admit though, I do prefer the lakes when there are less anglers on there.

 

 

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8 hours ago, yonny said:

Agree mate. A fish that knows it's being fished for is 100 times harder to catch imo.

This is where the whole "riggy" fish thing comes into play imo….. Rather than troughing gill deep, I've seen fish plucking a bait at a time when they are edgy. In which case, less is best in terms of how much bait is put out imo..... I watched a fish once moving the 20 yds between 2 lightly baited margin spots, about 8 baits on each spot. Every time he moved onto the other spot I put 2 more broken baits out on the previous spot, he was on his own and just plucking a bait or two at a time before switching spots. Eventually I lowered a rig onto one of the spots, no buzzer, within 5 minutes the rod hooped round and I caught him.. 26 common...… I love that kind of fishing..... I'd wager that a lot of the lads spodding piles of bait out, would've had the odd fish coming in and out of their water, just plucking a few bits gingerly and moving on to the next pile...… The old adage , once you've put the bait in, you can't take it out.... I think that each swim on a busy day ticket (or any busy lake) will have a spot in front of it that sees a lot of bait regularly. If I found a clear area like this, I would probably go against the grain and fish a single or stringer on that spot, knowing that the fish visit it regularly. Not committing to piling the bait in initialy, makes for an easier decision to move swims if needed. In the main, you probably need far less bait with these sort of waters, due to what is going in on a regular basis. In effect, most spots would have been pre baited several times for you already.

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3 hours ago, B.C. said:

This is where the whole "riggy" fish thing comes into play imo….. Rather than troughing gill deep, I've seen fish plucking a bait at a time when they are edgy. In which case, less is best in terms of how much bait is put out imo..... I watched a fish once moving the 20 yds between 2 lightly baited margin spots, about 8 baits on each spot. Every time he moved onto the other spot I put 2 more broken baits out on the previous spot, he was on his own and just plucking a bait or two at a time before switching spots. Eventually I lowered a rig onto one of the spots, no buzzer, within 5 minutes the rod hooped round and I caught him.. 26 common...… I love that kind of fishing..... I'd wager that a lot of the lads spodding piles of bait out, would've had the odd fish coming in and out of their water, just plucking a few bits gingerly and moving on to the next pile...… The old adage , once you've put the bait in, you can't take it out.... I think that each swim on a busy day ticket (or any busy lake) will have a spot in front of it that sees a lot of bait regularly. If I found a clear area like this, I would probably go against the grain and fish a single or stringer on that spot, knowing that the fish visit it regularly. Not committing to piling the bait in initialy, makes for an easier decision to move swims if needed. In the main, you probably need far less bait with these sort of waters, due to what is going in on a regular basis. In effect, most spots would have been pre baited several times for you already.

Totally agree about the riggy bit, and it is one of the situations where I have seen carp actually pick up baits rather than suck them in, it is where heavily fished for carp do need adaptions on the rig, or lead set up.

I put lead set up as by changing from a semi-fixed lead to running lead can put fish on the bank, as can changing rig and hair length.

 

I wonder how many anglers do over bait on fishing a swim, adding even more onto what is already there from the previous angler?

We can very rarely see what is there from before we get there!

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Nick 

I agree on the heavy baiting (they'll come to me) syndrome. I'm regularly astonished how much bait people put out, the more you use the less likely you have a chance of a fish. Jim Gibbinson wrote about no more than 170 grams of free offerings per rod, which compared to today is absolutely nothing. There's numerous examples of the same thought.

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