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Reedy11

What Rig? Helicopter?

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Hey everyone,

long time no post!

I’m going to France in September to fish a lake called Val D’or. I’ve heard it’s clay with patches of silt and gravel but also that there’s weedy areas so a bit of a mixed bag.

For the last few years I’ve had quite a lot of success using inline leads catching me my PB 34lb in a gravel pit.

Ive recently started experimenting with new setups using helicopter rigs and have had a bit of success.

Fishing a new water I’m looking for some advise on your experiences using helicopter rigs, I was conisderIng Korda Kable chod leader with heli set up, tied boom section and a stiff hinged rig with a bottom bait/pop up snowman set up. Are there any situations where this wouldn’t work or have you got any other suggestions?

Thanks

Jason

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On 28/07/2018 at 17:40, Reedy11 said:

I was conisderIng Korda Kable chod leader with heli set up, tied boom section and a stiff hinged rig with a bottom bait/pop up snowman set up. Are there any situations where this wouldn’t work or have you got any other suggestions?

The stiff hinge is a pop up rig bud.

If you want to fish a snowman have a think about a simple fluoro D rig.

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8 hours ago, yonny said:

The stiff hinge is a pop up rig bud.

If you want to fish a snowman have a think about a simple fluoro D rig.

This is the kind of rig I mean, helicopter with long boom section I believe it does have a pop up on

3A6D6283-74F4-4474-A4DC-5C728D922D4D.jpeg

Edited by Reedy11

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As for leader, I’d heartily recommend the avid pin down, very hard wearing, easily spliced, supple and sinks like a brick.

as for that rig I believe that’s a combi. One of my faves. Used that before in choddy areas without issue. Flouro wasn’t too stiff though, just kept straight through preassure in a rig wallet.

As mentioned above, d rig it or German rig it. Depending on the type of silt I’d be inclined to use something supple, but not as supple as braid. Ntrap or ghost soft straight through.

not saying I know it all but I got so bogged down by wondering about silt and fishing in it, I complicated things for myself. Have a google about for Terry Hearn and his early days fishing in silt. It’ll give you food for thought.

best of luck with the trip though dude.

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On 15 October 2018 at 20:14, Dez Animaux said:

You don't have to use complex rigs, a plain bog standard stiff rig is an awesome rig, Dave Lane uses it for his bottom baits

Or just use a little D rig

Anyway mate the whole point of helicopter rigs is for fishing over a bit of debris when you can set the top bead high up and allow the rig to settle over a bit of weed or debris like mucky old leaves, twigs etc.

Heli rigs also rule on weedy lakes where there is a risk of being snagged up, they are the safest because if the line breaks the fish will only be left with a hooklink and no trailing lines.

Always lead about your swim and if it's firm and clean just stick with your inlines. People get too overcomplicated and there is never any need. Tight lines.

Sorry helicopter rigs on weedy lakes are not the safest. 

The first point is that a bead, or ring swivel sliding up and down your mainline increases the risk or the line abrading and giving way, breaking. Leaders are a BIG no no anywhere near snags or weed. Playing a fish on a bomb on the end of the line set up gives a funny playing angle, and after personal experience I have seen hooks open out. Not all patterns are suitable.

Weed collects on both the bead, the lead and the hook, and actually if you get a break off (especially with a leader), the fish could be trailing rig, leader and lead, as a bead can be jammed up by weed.

 

You are far better to go back to inline leads in the event of a break off, only the hook collects the weed.

 

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19 minutes ago, Dean O'Baggio said:

Incorrect

A DROP OFF/rotten bottom ('C' clips are best, reinfoced with strong pva string for distance casting) helicopter rig is BY FAR the safest in weed

An inline lead will drop down easily between weed stems and get jammed up, having no lead on the line at all and just a tiny swivel is perfect, plus if the line breaks the carp can be left only with a hooklink in its gob and nothing else, with any inline or leadclip there is a risk of the fish traling X many yards of line around

Plus that claim about ''funny playing angle'' and hooks opening out with helicopter rigs is also unfounded, I've been using them for 20 years and never experienced that, you must be on duff hooks

Besides, many weedy complexes insist on the setup I mentioned, drop off helicopter only, usually leader only as well as it is there as a ''rubbing leader''

 

 

 

 

Nope, sorry, personal experience tells me otherwise.

You NEED the lead on a helicopter for the rig to be able to slide off any leader or breakage. A bit of weed can jam any bead in place, and that on a leader can lead to tether rigs. I have seen it with my own eyes, as a bailiff I have had to remove fissh from snags where that happened. Even Keith Moors, who owns a lake in France has totally banned leaders for that reason.

 

Next thing, an inline lead, it won't drop unless you let the pressure off, and playing a fish in and around weed, you must keep the pressure on. Add to that, with a breakage, the inline does not stay on the line, it can pull free off the tubing, and any line trailing is just the hooklink. As an aside, in the event of a break from excessive pressure on the line, it is the knot that gives, be that the hooklink swivel, or the leader knot.

 

You only have 20years experience? Catch up mate😅😉, I'm closer to 40!

Hooks definitely do open out on helicopter set-ups, the rig running up the line during the fight also increases the chances of snap-off. The pressure of not having a straight pull is what causes the hooks to open out, and has been written about in books and articles by various anglers, starting with Tim Paisley and the late, great Rod Hutchinson.

 

Basically helicopter rigs are only good as a silt rig, or for extreme distance casting, but it must be remembered that indication is much reduced.

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2 hours ago, Dean O'Baggio said:

Indication is no more ''reduced'' than with any semi fixed setup be that leadclip, inline, whatever mate..?

Some people swear by a leadclip in silt, as the lead and swivel act as a ''link ledger'' and plug into the silt with the line and hooklink laying on top, others simply use an inline with a long soft hooklink, letting the lead plug and provide a ''bolt'' effect for you.. There's more than one way to blank in other words! Lol

No, indication is very much reduced with helicopter set-ups. The fish has a large area to move in with no indication, even more if you have a bead up the line as per 'chod rig'.

I have seen fish move as much as 30metres with absolutely no indication happening at the buzzer, and that was at a very short range. The fish moved in a perfect arc. I myself have lost fish when a single bleep in the middle of the night, no indicator rise or fall, yet the lead had been moved.

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25 minutes ago, Dean O'Baggio said:

Precisely the same thing can, and does happen with any semi fixed setup, it's called ''kiting''.. and has been proven countless times on underwater footage with divers and anglers using leadclips, moving the rig miles in any direction and giving no indication at the alarm, helicopter rig with bead set close to lead makes it no better or worse than a leadclip, especially if the hooklink is short, although I accept that having a high top bead on a chod rig could make it worse

Slack lines accentuate it, one of the most stupid trends ever in carp fishing is slack lines..

And if I was using a semi fixed setup it would be helicopter every time. 

You seem to have it in for them but they offer many benefits over a lead clip or inline, and the popularity of the rotary setup amongst big fish anglers speaks for itself in terms of the extra safety aspects it offers

 

 

 

 

If I use a semi-fixed set-up, the best for hooking is an inline. I refuse to use a lead clip, they are a dangerous over-rated item of tackle that should not have been invented. I would go back to a John Roberts bead!

 

The bomb on the end of the line is only safe if the lead DOES NOT get ejected in the event of a break-off. It is the weight of the lead that allows any bead to slide off, followed by the rig.

 

As it happens I prefer to use a run ring, as a bolt rig, fished with a tight line.

 

I was experimenting with lead set-ups in the water long before media got to do divers tests on how a lead works, indication etc.

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1 hour ago, salokcinnodrog said:

As it happens I prefer to use a run ring, as a bolt rig, fished with a tight line.

 

 

Aaah so YOU'RE the one that keeps run ring (AKA ''tangle enhancer'') producers in business!!!!!!!!

And the words ''bolt'' and running rig do not belong in the same sentence

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Guest

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4 hours ago, Dean O'Baggio said:

Aaah so YOU'RE the one that keeps run ring (AKA ''tangle enhancer'') producers in business!!!!!!!!

And the words ''bolt'' and running rig do not belong in the same sentence

 

 

 

 

 

What tangles?

I don't get them.

 

As for run rings and bolt rigs, look at original Kevin Maddocks bolt rig pictures😉

 

 

 

Not the best image as I just took it straight from Carp Fever, but oh look, a running lead with an eye mounted bait

image.jpg

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7 minutes ago, Dean O'Baggio said:

That's NOT a bolt rig

A bolt rig is a short hooklink with a SEMI FIXED heavy lead

Would you like to take that to Kevin Maddocks?

It is after all his picture from Carp Fever, you know, one of the first written books available to carp anglers, published first in 1981.

The picture despite being out of focus clearly says 'bolt rig'😉🙄

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Just now, salokcinnodrog said:

Would you like to take that to Kevin Maddocks?

 

What I'm supposed to respect him, am I?

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Just now, Dean O'Baggio said:

What I'm supposed to respect him, am I?

Think personally you need to learn to respect everyone😉

 

If it wasn't for anglers like Kevin Maddocks and Rod Hutchinson, Richard Walker you wouldn't have carp fishing as you know it now.

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