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smufter

Great video sums it up for me.........

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12 minutes ago, Gazlaaar said:

Do you think he'd of gotten the take in the first place if he'd of been parked up on top of his rods. 

It's easy to see flaws in anybodies fishing but Martin Bowler has been angling for a long time and knows what he's doing. 

I'm not saying he should have been on top of his rods.

But if it had been me, on a nice morning like that, I'd have been sitting in a chair and the bank end of the jetty watching the water rather than sitting in my bivvy 50 yards away.....

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39 minutes ago, smufter said:

But does anybody else think that if he'd been "on" his rods, he wouldn't have got smashed in the weed???????

If he’d been closer to his rods, he would have had a better chance against the weed for sure, so, is it school boy error or, the way the jetty was built? If he’d been sitting in the next swim when the take occured, he would have been slated, yet the distance was about the same? I personally think, if you are going to build these platforms projecting into the water, why not make them big enough for a brolley or bivvy? Why didn’t he leave the landing net with the rods, instead of running onto the jetty with it each time he had a take?

Knowing the lake, it’s not the best bit of angling I’ve seen, entertainment seems to take priority nowadays though?

 

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2 hours ago, yonny said:

Bowler is one of the greatest anglers of our generation. He knows what he's doing and I'm not going to question his methods.

I'm not doubting the fact that he is one of the greatest anglers of our generation Yonny.

But whats the difference between this example and fishing whilst asleep and not getting to your rods on time?? The end result is the same.... you've allowed a fish to get to a snag with your inability to get to your rod. No different in my mind to him nattering away in the next swim to a mate. All I am saying is he should have been sitting closer to his rods. It's not as if it was hissing it down with rain, blowing a gale or 5 degrees below zero where he needed the warmth of a bivvy is it???

If that had happened to a mate of mine, I'd have called him all the names under the sun!!

 

Edited by smufter

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29 minutes ago, smufter said:

But whats the difference between this example and fishing whilst asleep and not getting to your rods on time?? The end result is the same.... you've allowed a fish to get to a snag with your inability to get to your rod.

I think we must be watching a different video geez. He doesn't let the fish get to a snag. The fish weeds him up half way through the fight. This is what happens on weedy waters. It happens to me all the time. Usually you can get them out. Sometimes you can't. Part and parcel of fishing proper carp waters imo.

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I would of fished exactly the same, boards and jetties are inherently noisy at either end, plus leaving the net at the end of such a narrow platform in my opinion would be a trip hazard, especially when wet.

There was no real difference in time running with the net or not, it's just silly that his methods are called into question when you don't really understand his thinking or his reasoning.

 

Edited by Gazlaaar

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Just now, Gazlaaar said:

I would of fished exactly the same, boards and jetties are inherently noisy at either end,

 

I wasn't suggesting he sit ON the jetty.

Sitting at the end bankside in his chair (on the grass) would have cut down substantially on his reaction time.

 

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I agree with virtually all the above statements tbf. His net could of been on the boat next to the jetty,he could of sat on the jetty he was fishing 40/50 yards away so was hardly going to spook em. If his window of bite time was 2-3hrs then in my opinion sitting on your rods would of been a better option probably would of looked more “carpy” if he was making a brew 😆😆

But I also think Martin Bowler is probably the best all rounder in the game at the min,so I’d like to think he just fished the way he thought best...... be that for the camera or not.

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If you look at the aerial view of his jetty and the one next to it early into the video, you can see just how far away his bivvy is from his rods, and it is by anybody’s standards a long trot. I know many fisheries that wouldn’t even tolerate somebody fishing that far from their rods. If in open water, and no weed etc, then it’s nearly always not a problem but, knowing how weedy the place is, I was a bit surprised at seeing him fishing this way.

All anglers, even great ones get it wrong sometimes, it could be argued that he was making the best of what was on offer, which was a long narrow jetty, protruding a fair way into the lake, with a small platform at the end for playing a fish. Those sort of swims are marked as “Day only” on many waters, and rightly so some might say.

Imagine taking him as a guest on your syndicate, and he set up in the same scenario as the video, would you feel comfortable with it? I wouldn’t. He and a few others are privileged to be able to fish the lake, often alone apart from the film crew, why not fish from a better vantage point, as there are other swims on there more suitable for nights?  He’s a great angler but, not above criticism surely?

 

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I think he explains quite clearly in the video something that I've said on here before - that being that carp that don't know they're being fished for are infinitely easier to catch. If that means setting up a 2 or 3 second dash away from the jetty I'd have no problem with it. It's not like he's fishing snags - he's fishing open water. Yes there is weed about but at worst that means he'll lose the fish. It's not like he'll tether it. For me it is safe angling and that is ultimately what counts.

I thought it was another brilliant vid from ESP.

"For those 2/3 hours at dawn I'm a millionaire". So true.😃

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Don't see the problem myself, Martin lost a fish in the weed ( who hasn't ? ) He's fishing effectively and in my mind safely one rod in the right spot where the fish are also.... He's not right up against the weed he's fishing the margin slope , by the sound of things those fish know if their being fished for so his approach is correct......

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10 hours ago, The Compleat Angler said:

There’s possibly another explanation why he was so far from the rod, and running with a landing net. Perhaps he did have other rods out, and the single was a snide! Lol!

He states in the video he's only fishing one rod.

And in the 1st take (the one I'm talking about) he didn't have the landing net in his hand!

I'm not trying to be argumentative (honestly I'm not) but as good as he is, I call that bad angling.

 

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15 hours ago, yonny said:

 If that means setting up a 2 or 3 second dash away from the jetty I'd have no problem with it. For me it is safe angling and that is ultimately what counts

Again, not being argumentative Yonny, (I respect your thoughts on all aspects of angling mate) but unless there has been a bit of editing on that first run, it takes him 10 seconds to get to his rods, not 2 or 3. With no landing net evident. Jeez, I sleep like the dead but I could get out of my bivvy and on my rods quicker than that!! I tend not to do it though because I consider it bad angling. 

 

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13 minutes ago, smufter said:

Again, not being argumentative Yonny

For sure Smuft, it's just a debate buddy, it's healthy👍

14 minutes ago, smufter said:

it takes him 10 seconds to get to his rods

See in open water I don't see that as a problem. I'm sure if I timed myself in the middle of the night I'd exceed it. Imo it's safe

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I have a local water that the majority of swims are on jetties, and you have to bivvy back off them. If the water level is up, you could be wading through a couple of yards of soft mud before reaching the jetty. 

I have seen anglers sit waiting on the jetties, and the disturbance they create. Every movement, every bottom roll as they shift on the chair, all create waves, vibration and noise. 

 

Brackens has a swim called Boards, I have blanked when bivvied up in there, it is big enough for a bivvy.

 

 

Back to the video, awesome. Long distance from the rods? I think my comments above sum that up.

We are commenting about him bivvying up, and his 2/3 hours, but a simple question has been missed. Is he sleeping with his rod out? Or is he casting at first light? If casting at first light then he is not sleeping, but sitting where he creates least disturbance.

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I guess it’s down to what people are comfortable with, and obviously the venue rules. I have seen anglers pulled because they are too far from their rods, which was nowhere near as far as Martin was, and also fished waters where you are allowed to be a “sensible” distance from your rods, even a couple of swims away?

If fishing completely open water, no snags or weed, apart from the fish possibly going through another angler’s lines, probably no need for panic. Obviously snag fishing, an angler should be on the rods instantly, weed fishing, or fishing close to weed also needs a bit of thought. As we all know there are lots of types of weed, some aren’t too bad for coaxing out a fish that’s got it’s head and body into it, where as other types can be a blooming nightmare, and there is definitely the potential for mouth or fin and body damage. Fish can get tethered in weed too. When we lose a fish through any situation, we like to think that the hook became  dislodged and the fish got it’s freedom, often though, the reality is the fish has sustained quite bad mouth damage as a result of attempts to get it clear of the weed. So, the type of weed and situation, needs to be taken into account when setting up. Martin obviously felt that what he was doing was safe, especially as it ended up on film. Personally, I’m still not convinced it was right? I honestly can’t understand why he didn’t leave the net by the rod either, there was more than enough room on parts of the jetty to leave the net, so unless it was a snide rod, why didn’t he?

Regarding the jetty/stage, building these properly is a lot of work, so why not make them big enough for a bivvy or brolley, many waters have the bigger ones, and cover can still be achieved by surrounding reeds etc? Usually the longer narrow stages are built for matches or day only fishing. Also, at what length should we say the jetty/stage is too long for fishing bivvy’d up? What I mean is, what if the jetty in the video was twice as long, would it still be ok to have a bivvy one end and a lone rod the other?

Personally, after watching the vid again, I think it’s odd that the net was not left close to the rod, and I do think he was too far from the rod. Just an observation and opinion though. 😉

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19 minutes ago, The Compleat Angler said:

we like to think that the hook became  dislodged and the fish got it’s freedom, often though, the reality is the fish has sustained quite bad mouth damage as a result of attempts to get it clear of the weed.

Imo mouth damage through weed fishing is caused by inexperienced anglers trying to drag them through it, particularly with braid. I have never seen a fish tethered in weed. Imo they just use it to their advantage. Hence when you lose a fish (in the weed) it's always easy to retrieve the rig. In my book as long as the rod is locked up in weed, the fish is still on, otherwise it just pulls through. It can be a very long and arduous task extracting them without a boat and without damaging the mouth.

That's just my observations of course.

19 minutes ago, The Compleat Angler said:

Regarding the jetty/stage, building these properly is a lot of work, so why not make them big enough for a bivvy or brolley

Most jetties were built for either boats or for match anglers as a peg and in many cases they were built before carp angling was mainstream. I'm sure most waters that are built as carp lakes nowadays would consider building them big enough for shelters.

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16 minutes ago, snowmanstevo said:

There was ample room for a rod on the jetty. I suppose we’ll never know his thinking behind his set up. At least he had the gonads to show his loss and have it on film.

And ample room for a net,as well.

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