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Standard bottom baits?


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9 hours ago, Pete Springate's Guns said:

Pop ups for the vast majority of my fishing (currently its all I’m using). Occasionally, I’ll use a wafter or balanced bottom bait/snowman. Can’t remember the last time I used a straight boilie bottom bait.

I think i may have sussed the difference between my catching and not catching, it isn't the use of a PVA bag, the type of hookbait, it's the length of the rig, when I stopped using bags my rigs naturally got longer,probably to the same length as everyone else, hmmm I remember saying hookbait doesn't really matter its the feeding situation, 

So in theory a pva bag full of 18mm baits with an 18mm bottom bait on a shorter rig is the ideal situation if its a clean dinner table, hard to distinguish which one is the hookbait, and they may trough the lot get nicked by the shorter rig resulting in more takes boom

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10 hours ago, elmoputney said:

Does anyone just use a standard bait out the bag hookbait anymore  ? 

Not used one in years! On the rare occasion I need to use a bottom bait I'll use a hardened hook bait.

9 hours ago, Pete Springate's Guns said:

Pop ups for the vast majority of my fishing

Likewise.

17 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

I think i may have sussed the difference between my catching and not catching....... it's the length of the rig

I can almost guarantee the length of the rig has nothing to do with your catching/not catching buddy.

19 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

probably to the same length as everyone else

This is not a problem imo. The rig (assuming it is capable of presenting effectively) is not as important as many think imo.

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11 hours ago, elmoputney said:

I just realised since I restarted fishing, I don't think I've cast a rig out with a standard bottom bait on ? 

Its always been a wafter, snowman or pop up? Maybe matching, usually a bright one or a standout bait of some kind , am I missing out? 

Does anyone just use a standard bait out the bag hookbait anymore  ? 

 

 

On the reservoir I had one rod on a pop-up, one on a snowman and one with a standard double bottom bait.

Each session I caught, it was always a particular presentation that caught, despite putting one of the others on the same spot.

So if I caught on a double bottom bait, that is the only thing that caught on that spot, even though I would swap rods and try another.

The snowman and bottom bait rods were fished at the same distance, at either side of the bed of bait. My beds or baiting situation was chicken corn or hemp or the two mixed with boilies over the top, fished with stringers.

 

 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

Each session I caught, it was always a particular presentation that caught, despite putting one of the others on the same spot.

So if I caught on a double bottom bait, that is the only thing that caught on that spot, even though I would swap rods and try another.

Did you catch on all 3 (pop-up, snowman, double bottom bait) over the course of the campaign Nick?

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1 hour ago, yonny said:

Not used one in years! On the rare occasion I need to use a bottom bait I'll use a hardened hook bait.

Likewise.

I can almost guarantee the length of the rig has nothing to do with your catching/not catching buddy.

This is not a problem imo. The rig (assuming it is capable of presenting effectively) is not as important as many think imo.

I think the rig length might be something to play with though, I was definately getting quicker bites with a shorter rig, 

Hypothetically here, 😁. Just suppose you get a group of fish or a fish feeding on your spot baits move about don't they, so by having a hookbait closer to the lead it's not moving as far off the baited spot without them picking up the lead, say you use a 4inch hooklink it only moves around 4 inches from the lead you have a bigger area of movement the longer the hooklink gets so the further away from your ideal zone the hookbait goes, I'm not saying a longer hooklink won't catch but I think a shorter one will be on the money more often maybe, and I also think they will prick themselves on the lead quicker maybe??? 

 

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1 hour ago, yonny said:

This is more important than any hypothetical stuff imo. Logic and fact beats theory all day👍

Agreed, it isn't based on total guesswork I was using 4 inch rigs in bags and getting more bites now 7-8 or longer and less bites, naturally it needs to be a firm spot so it presents but I think with all the rudd and nuisance fish it will be getting moved all over the shop, so it makes sense to make them shorter 

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540505643_dontbelieveeverything.jpg.64d213794bffb4119f6a9cae66a713c1.jpg

 

As Yonny implies, there is no substitute for personal experience.

 

I have also observed the same thing and have been using very short rigs for some time. From the millisecond the carp takes the bait there is a chance of it being ejected. I believe the longer the hook link, the more time you are giving the carp a chance to eject your bait. That is why I prefer short and active rigs.

 

I seem to be out of step with the rest of you because I still use bottom baits in preference to pop ups. That may be more a failing of my pop up technique than anything else.

Edited by carpepecheur
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12 hours ago, yonny said:

Did you catch on all 3 (pop-up, snowman, double bottom bait) over the course of the campaign Nick?

Yes Mate.

Just each session I caught there was a preference for one or the other. By the bridge was 5 fish caught on bottom baits in 2 sessions, then next session, same area was pop-ups for 2 fish, the only fish that were caught on pop-ups.

Snowman baits did not work there. 

Further up towards the nature reserve was all on snowman baits, and one of the bays was snowman bait.

 

On occasions I 'swapped' rods to the catching spot, so trying bottom baits where I had caught on snowman etc, nothing for the rest of the night. Put it back to how it was for the next night, catch fish again. Quite strange that up by the nature reserve as the bottom was clean, no silt.

By the bridge, nothing on snowman, again clean bottom as it is a funnel, although the occasional concrete block.

 

Up in the bays, silty bottom, and fish were caught on the snowman, no other presentation.

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9 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

By the bridge was 5 fish caught on bottom baits in 2 sessions, then next session, same area was pop-ups for 2 fish......

Further up towards the nature reserve was all on snowman baits, and one of the bays was snowman bait.

By the bridge, nothing on snowman.......

Up in the bays, silty bottom, and fish were caught on the snowman......

That's really interesting. I can only think that relates to the substrate AND the feeding situation (as the bridge area switched from BB's to PU's)?

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11 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

Yes Mate.

Just each session I caught there was a preference for one or the other. By the bridge was 5 fish caught on bottom baits in 2 sessions, then next session, same area was pop-ups for 2 fish, the only fish that were caught on pop-ups.

Snowman baits did not work there. 

Further up towards the nature reserve was all on snowman baits, and one of the bays was snowman bait.

 

On occasions I 'swapped' rods to the catching spot, so trying bottom baits where I had caught on snowman etc, nothing for the rest of the night. Put it back to how it was for the next night, catch fish again. Quite strange that up by the nature reserve as the bottom was clean, no silt.

By the bridge, nothing on snowman, again clean bottom as it is a funnel, although the occasional concrete block.

 

Up in the bays, silty bottom, and fish were caught on the snowman, no other presentation.

Were all the different types of rigs the same length?  

Edited by elmoputney
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50 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

Were all the different types of rigs the same length?  

 

The bottom bait and snowman rigs rigs were identical, only the pop-up rigs were shorter. The rigs were like the pictured combi-rig, or coated braid.

I could actually swap a bottom bait rig to a snowman rig. I don't know if you have seen my sliding ring rig? A sliding ring on the hookshank, with the hair tied to the ring, so I could tie on the hair and use the same rig for either. It gave me the option of changing hair length as well to suit my 'rules' about where I was hooking fish:

 

 


If I am hooking fish hooked dead centre of the bottom lip the hair and rig length is right.
If I am hooking fish at the back of the mouth, the hair and rig is too long.
If I am losing fish to hookpulls, nothing on after indication of a run, or hooking right at the very front of the lip, then the hair and rig is too short.

 

Everything was hooked perfectly. My lost fish (on pop-ups) were actually down to hooklink snapping after being chafed on blocks on the bottom.

 

Looking at that, I have not changed my rigs for over 12 years, what worked then, still works now.

image.jpeg

 

2 hours ago, yonny said:

That's really interesting. I can only think that relates to the substrate AND the feeding situation (as the bridge area switched from BB's to PU's)?

Its weird.

I basically had a rod on each at all times as I never knew which one would produce at any session, until by the bridge I stopped, after 3 sessions, fishing snowman rigs as it didn't produce and fished only bottom baits and the pop-up. It was also the spot where I could bait up by hand directly over my hookbaits, tipping my bait off the bridge. 

The other locations were Spomb loaded, plus the stringer attached to the hook.

In any session, it was only one rod that produced, with one exception by the bridge where I lost a fish on the pop-up and landed 3 on the bottom baits.

 

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