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salokcinnodrog

Problem for you with hookholds

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Think your way round this one.

 

A relatively unfished lake of 2 acres, the Carp are mostly natural food feeders, going to over 30lb. There are various patches of lilies around the lake and the bottom is mostly silkweed on gravel. One end is completetly weedlocked and at the height of weedgrowth is pretty unfishable.

 

The few carp that have been caught have been caught on particles and naturals, but are mostly the smaller fish.

 

I've fished the lake for a couple of sessions now and thought I'd start off pretty basic. The Lake is supposed to be Barbless only!

Last trip I lost 2 fish to hookpulls, sweetcorn on the hair.

This trip again I lost 2 fish to hookpulls, but on Boilies.

 

How would you start fishing the Lake and would what would you be doing to put right the hookpulls?

 

I'll give you what I've been doing to play around and improve hookholds and my starting rigs later.

 

I just want to see your thoughts round what you have on the information I have given you.

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Have you tryed longer rigs and shorter hairs or longer hairs and shorter rigs, Bait directly on the hook (sweetcorn,meat etc as long as there is not to many nuisance speacies about) This is where i would start but without knowing what you are doing its hard to suggest other options, :wink:

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Have you tryed longer rigs and shorter hairs or longer hairs and shorter rigs, Bait directly on the hook (sweetcorn,meat etc as long as there is not to many nuisance speacies about) This is where i would start but without knowing what you are doing its hard to suggest other options, :wink:

 

Nuisance species abound, small roach and rudd tear apart soft bait. Eels take worm and maggot baits, too many in the swim and due to the eels the Carp won't go there.

Most of the problem is down to the lead set-up :wink:

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Due to undertow, Running Leads and Slack lines have not been possible.

 

Bear in mind that these are relatively unfished for Carp, I can easily find the clear patches and know many of the patrol routes and a few of the feeding areas.

 

Also that due to the position of some of the Swims (only allowed to fish from proper pegs), some of the snags are unsafe to fish.

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I'd try an in-line lead with a 8" plus supple braid hooklength. This might allow the bait to be taken in better, but still have better hooking potential.

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With the bottom being silk weed I'd opt for a long supple braided hook link maybe a foot or so in length depending on the length of weed . The Barbless rule is a bit of a nuisance but you'd think that by using a wide gape hook ( Carp R Us wide gape nailers ) and some tubing coming off at a sharp angle you could create a claw effect that should help the hook stay in better, with hopefully the wider gape gripping more flesh . Saying that though you could break the rules and fish with micro or crushed barbs. :wink:

 

Have you seen the bigger fish on the particles ? If you have then I'd stick with that method as if the little fish are getting caught it can only be a matter of time before the larger fish do too. I'd balance my baits too so they really fly up into their mouths, also have it set up helicopter style with leadcore and your top bead set 6 or so inches from away from your lead.

 

Bit of a tricky one without knowing the patrol routes of your target fish and the areas they might favour to feed in. What the water clarity is like , if you need to camo' the rig up to make them feed more confidently .

Altering the length of the hair would be my first action. As well as trying to find out where the bigger fish have been caught from before.

 

I've been fishing a similar sounding water this year but without the 30's. It only holds five fish that we know of which are not that hard to find tbh. The only problem is getting them to take the bait. In the spring they were really hungry fish, we could just chuck corn and pellets in and they'd hoover it up but as the season has gone on and the lake becoming totally weed choked they have become less and less interested in bait. We can still find them after a couple of hours of looking but not get them on the bait. I've sort of given up for this year and am going to have a go in the winter when the weeds died down and definitely in the spring when they're on the look out for food. It seems though that as soona s the weeds up and the naturals are booming you're fighting an uphill battle.

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Have you used lite leads like 1oz bombs instaed of the standard 3oz etc or very litely set lead clips so the lead is dropped almost instantly on the take so you are in direct contact with the fish, you say that you lost 4 fish out of the 5 takes did you land the fifth one is so what was the hook hold like,

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I'd try an in-line lead with a 8" plus supple braid hooklength. This might allow the bait to be taken in better, but still have better hooking potential.

 

You Would?

 

Thats the problem set-up!

 

The water is so clear its like tap water. The large Carp don't come over the allowed particles, the largest landed from the lake is 26lb, but larger are in there, I've watched them. The swim where the larger Carp was caught makes no difference as 10 swims face onto the same area.

Also the Hooks being used were wide gapes! Seeing as it was so new for fishing I started with easy set-ups. I've had my doubts about wide gapes for a while, but after playing around I'm convinced that I'm better going back to my favoured standard (crimped) Nailers.

 

Hook fell out in the net on the take that I landed, but showed signs of being dead centre of the bottom lip. It wasn't a big fish though and came on sweetcorn

 

I'll let you play on it for tonight, got some answers that I have put into practice and proved right so far, but working on other thoughts as well.

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i would take ME with you so we can try 4 differant rigs and find the one that works :lol::lol: seriously though i think i would try the polaras float on one rig so you can see exactly what is going on and see every little movement and lift into the fish as soon as the float goes. inline lead on the other with very short hooklink and slack line

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i would take ME with you so we can try 4 differant rigs and find the one that works :lol::lol: seriously though i think i would try the polaras float on one rig so you can see exactly what is going on and see every little movement and lift into the fish as soon as the float goes. inline lead on the other with very short hooklink and slack line

 

Not to be picky Gazmeesh, but Nick has already said he cant use slack lines as there is quite a under tow and he is having trouble with the in-line lead set up, just to save confusing the situation :D:D:D:wink:

 

But yeah, Float fishing would be a good idea to try as he's not having to cast that far or even feeder fish with a float or float legering with a lite bomb :wink:

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i would take ME with you so we can try 4 differant rigs and find the one that works :lol::lol: seriously though i think i would try the polaras float on one rig so you can see exactly what is going on and see every little movement and lift into the fish as soon as the float goes. inline lead on the other with very short hooklink and slack line

 

Not to be picky Gazmeesh, but Nick has already said he cant use slack lines as there is quite a under tow and he is having trouble with the in-line lead set up, just to save confusing the situation :D:D:D:wink:

 

But yeah, Float fishing would be a good idea to try as he's not having to cast that far or even feeder fish with a float or float legering with a lite bomb :wink:

:oops: teach me to read things properly :)

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i would take ME with you so we can try 4 differant rigs and find the one that works :lol::lol: seriously though i think i would try the polaras float on one rig so you can see exactly what is going on and see every little movement and lift into the fish as soon as the float goes. inline lead on the other with very short hooklink and slack line

 

Not to be picky Gazmeesh, but Nick has already said he cant use slack lines as there is quite a under tow and he is having trouble with the in-line lead set up, just to save confusing the situation :D:D:D:wink:

 

But yeah, Float fishing would be a good idea to try as he's not having to cast that far or even feeder fish with a float or float legering with a lite bomb :wink:

:oops: teach me to read things properly :)

 

Lol :lol: weve all done it :lol:

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Lead clip set up to discharge the lead when you get a take?

 

Will save the lead bouncing around when you've got the fish on......But I'm guessing you know all of this and you can't teach yer grandma to suck eggs :)

 

Out of interest, how long into the fight have you been losing the fish?

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if i was you mate let the person charge know that barbless are more dangerous and then just use a micro barb

 

just a thought

 

Lol,

Been there done and now have been told that basically what I use is up to my discretion. If you look at the latest rules I put up in "rules of your Water", the only one I've been told I have to stick to is NO NUTS!

The Barbless was for me to experiment with and see if the penetration improved with the Lead set-up.

 

 

Are you sure you have lost the fish due to hook pulls? Small snagy weedy waters = fish carrying line, which will give you some good "runs."

Chris,

I've seen the fish I hooked, even had some of them in the near margins when the hook pulled.

 

While Float fishing is an option on some swims, I don't think that it is the best option near where I think the bigger fish hang out. Yet for the smaller carp in the near margins it does work.

As I have said previously the larger Carp are wary of coming over just sweetcorn, and even from moving out of some of the extreme weed.

 

Not sure if this is beneficial or not, but the Anglers who fish the Lake tend to be float anglers rather than Carp Anglers, so the Carp are definitely not Boilie Orientated. It means that I'm prebaiting for myself and myself alone

 

The basic rigs I started with were size 6 and 8 Wide Gapes (NOT Korda's) with a 5mm Hair, 15cm Braided Knotless Hooklinks on 23/4oz Inline Leads. I know the reason for the hookpulls and it is down to the leadshape and how they sit if they land on the edge of the weed patches. The Lead is not sitting flat on the bottom, and as the fish take, the lead is able to rock slightly, so the fish are feeling the lead and bolting before the hook has penetrated properly. As a result the hook is at the extremity or wobbling free during the fight.

 

The fish I landed was hooked over groundbait on a cocktail bait of Sweetcorn on the hair and a worm on the hook. It was only a couple of pounds, I didn't even weigh it.

My Mate was having the same problem with lost fish as I did, but he has only been Freshwater fishing for a year, so wasn't quite able to think his way around the situation. He was happy however catching the smaller carp on the float.

 

This week as he had the first choice of swim he fished up to where I reckoned was the best area and lost the first fish due to a hookpull. I noticed he was having the same problem, so his next cast was with a Running Lead stopped at about 30cms on tubing, a basic Shocker Set-up. The rig I set up for him was 15cm of Amnesia to 5cm of Merlin as a Combi Rig with 2 grains of Maize on the hair, over a heavily groundbaited area of Maize, Sweetcorn and White Breadcrumb. His next take was an absolute screamer. Not a massive Carp, but 9lb Common he was well happy with.

This fish may also have messed up my thoughts on weights of the fish I have seen in the past, when I first went to net it I was going to tease him about catching 5lb Dinks, it was only when I went to lift the net that I realised it was a lot bigger than it looked. It had quite a girth, but was quite short.

 

I think that I'll be persevering with this and the heavy baiting with Pellets, Groundbait and Boilies. The Boilies I was using were 18mm baits I had left, so I'll switch down to 15mm and see how this gets on.

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I put this thread up to see if I could create some thinking from Members. It wasn't intended as a question "how do I do this?" thread, and from those that replied thanks, it shows some thought and in some cases actually raised some more questions that I have to think about.

 

The idea of the thread also showed that you can't go expecting to catch fish immediately, even on almost unfished waters, you may have to struggle and experiment at times.

 

The experimentation will go on until I find that I'm catching fish regularly, and then the Carp will probably change their takes and I'll have to start again.

 

This Hookhold problem can be caused by so many factors that not many people think about. From how the Carp are feeding, how much bait is in the swim, the Lead set-up, the Rig length and material, as I suddenly had to start thinking about how to improve presentation, the straight braid was not right over the weed.

 

It just shows how little we know, so maybe every trip we should be experimenting, on at least 1 rod in an attempt to see what is working best.

It can be easy to dive straight in on "free" advice that Forum's and Magazines offer, but how relevant is that advice to our situation? The water that the Magazine covers is not likely to be our own, therefore the advice is null and void. The information that we gain from the Forum, useful as it is, is other anglers thinking there way around our problem as they are having to visualise what we are saying. As good as their thinking is, they can only imagine what we are seeing, and the typical problems we have.

 

Does anyone else have any hookhold problems and think that the problem is all rig related?

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If you look in personal goals, i said i want to try new rigs or modify the rigs i'm already useing or something like that, anyway on the water iv been fishing at the mo i wasn't catching so i changed 1 thing about my rig at a time, started of with a shorter rig, no luck, then longer rig, no luck again, them removed the shrink tubing of the shank of the hook had 3 dropped runs, so then that got me thinking, next rig less shrink tubing, nothing happend but did get quite alot of line bites (fish mouthing bait or were they just line bites) so again removed the rig tubing altogether and replaced it with a berkley fake bloodworm sleeve thingy and straight away i was getting more confidant line bites, so i'm sitting there thinking i going along the right line here, and all of a sudden bleeep bleeeep bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep and i'm in, and i have caught on that rig everytime (on that lake that i was stuggerling on) since then, so i ended up with the same lenght rig that i started of with just replaced the shink tubing for a hook sleeve, even had my first cat on the rig :D:D but i went around the houses to find that out, i did'nt change my rig in any other way, but it seemed to work, i think at the end of the day, this is what it comes down to, you can take advice from others, you can use and improve it into your own fishing way, but what is working for others, isnt always going to do the job for you, :wink:

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hi mate im fishing a water much the same , try the hermit lead system that should sort things out for you ,i use a 2oz inline lead with 2inch of stiff tube coming out the back i tie my rig as normal then i tie a lenth of 2lb pole pink elastic to my swivel thread it through the tube fold it over and secure it with a lead rubber and trim the rest off , try it its worked for me but just play around with it to suit your way of fishing i hope it helps :P

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I'd try a heavy lead of say 4-6 oz, coupled with longshank x hooks which are proving good for me at present. Hopefully with a short hooklink and the extra weight they should get well pricked and bolt good style. The lead will come off on the take so thats not a problem either. If I was still losing fish I'd try longer links with part trigger keeping the heavy lead.

 

If all that fails I'd loose the lead and give em a freelined (well weighted leader only) - see how they get on with that! Perfect for the margins.

 

I'd get the little gits - let me at them :wink::lol:

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