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salokcinnodrog

Removing Pike from the water

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remove pike at your peril, many trout waters have removed pike to protect trout stock and completly messed up natures balance. pike will and do eat themselves, if big pike are removed a water will become over run with jacks which is here a lot of waters have gone wrong.

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remove pike at your peril, many trout waters have removed pike to protect trout stock and completly messed up natures balance. pike will and do eat themselves, if big pike are removed a water will become over run with jacks which is here a lot of waters have gone wrong.

totally agree, but as stated in my post only jacks are given to me for the table approx five or six a year. these fish are given to me by a good friend and water keeper(not a bailiff), and I think people should have the good grace to accept that he has a far better understanding of conservation on the estate waters he controls than anybody posting on here :wink:

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Goblin,

As I read it from the other thread the Pike are removed from a Trout Water or Stock Pond?

 

In that case they will be a nuisance no matter what the environment.

Its just a Natural Harvest.

 

 

At the same time Gaz is totally right when he says that removing Pike from a water will create a problem, Nature finds its own balance. Remove the larger Pike and you get overrun with Small Pike. What about the possibility that these Pike that Goblin gets are the Sexually Mature Males that have grown on? These would want to be removed in the case of their being a Female Pike in the water to prevent Spawning. This female Pike will naturally predate the Sickly Trout and also the smaller Pike.

 

Years ago the wording on Licences was that you could take 2 fish home per day, and use 10 for Livebaiting. (no limit for Minnows and Bleak), from Public (NOT Privately owned) waters.

 

Now with the limited number of Anglers at the time this would not have affected the Ecosystem.

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Goblin,

As I read it from the other thread the Pike are removed from a Trout Water or Stock Pond?

 

In that case they will be a nuisance no matter what the environment.

Its just a Natural Harvest.

 

 

At the same time Gaz is totally right when he says that removing Pike from a water will create a problem, Nature finds its own balance. Remove the larger Pike and you get overrun with Small Pike. What about the possibility that these Pike that Goblin gets are the Sexually Mature Males that have grown on? These would want to be removed in the case of their being a Female Pike in the water to prevent Spawning. This female Pike will naturally predate the Sickly Trout and also the smaller Pike.

 

Years ago the wording on Licences was that you could take 2 fish home per day, and use 10 for Livebaiting. (no limit for Minnows and Bleak), from Public (NOT Privately owned) waters.

 

Now with the limited number of Anglers at the time this would not have affected the Ecosystem.

 

hi mate, the fish i get are adolescent males in the 3-6lb bracket and are as you say a natural harvest. The bigger females are a low level stock and their prey are written off, causing no disruption to the ecosystem, in fact quite the opposite. Incidently pike have long been a staple "game" fish in this country and were gracing tables long before trout :wink:

As you know mate i find the removal of carp totally abhorrent, but pike are a breed apart and it is done sensibly and humanely.Far better that fish should grace a table than be left for scavengers on the bank or similar after being dispatched. these are obviously just my feelings on the matter and as you know im a big supporter of all country pursuits, fox hunting,rabbiting,shooting etc etc etc, simply the world I have grown up in and feel it is a very big part of our heritage.(when done correctly by people who understand their environment and respect it) :wink:

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Goblin,

As I read it from the other thread the Pike are removed from a Trout Water or Stock Pond?

 

In that case they will be a nuisance no matter what the environment.

Its just a Natural Harvest.

 

 

At the same time Gaz is totally right when he says that removing Pike from a water will create a problem, Nature finds its own balance. Remove the larger Pike and you get overrun with Small Pike. What about the possibility that these Pike that Goblin gets are the Sexually Mature Males that have grown on? These would want to be removed in the case of their being a Female Pike in the water to prevent Spawning. This female Pike will naturally predate the Sickly Trout and also the smaller Pike.

 

Years ago the wording on Licences was that you could take 2 fish home per day, and use 10 for Livebaiting. (no limit for Minnows and Bleak), from Public (NOT Privately owned) waters.

 

Now with the limited number of Anglers at the time this would not have affected the Ecosystem.

 

hi mate, the fish i get are adolescent males in the 3-6lb bracket and are as you say a natural harvest. The bigger females are a low level stock and their prey are written off, causing no disruption to the ecosystem, in fact quite the opposite. Incidently pike have long been a staple "game" fish in this country and were gracing tables long before trout :wink:

As you know mate i find the removal of carp totally abhorrent, but pike are a breed apart and it is done sensibly and humanely.Far better that fish should grace a table than be left for scavengers on the bank or similar after being dispatched. these are obviously just my feelings on the matter and as you know im a big supporter of all country pursuits, fox hunting,rabbiting,shooting etc etc etc, simply the world I have grown up in and feel it is a very big part of our heritage.(when done correctly by people who understand their environment and respect it) :wink:

 

 

Myself personnely I would have to agree with Goblin. Where there is limited space in an environment that is managed by man, the ecosystem needs to be kept in check. The same thing happens in Africa with over populated heards of Elephant or prides of Lions.

 

I wouldn't agree with the fox hunting Goblin but at the same time I respect your view on it. I won't go in to it anymore because it will only be the same views argued that have been argued for the last 10 or so years.

 

I'm Generaly quite un sentimental when it comes to animals for food as I spent a lot of time at my grandparents farm when I was younger and had the view from the start of a lamb or chickens life to that of a plate of food on the table.

 

I think that if you have been around that before then your view points will more than likely reflect that. The same as if you have not been around it!

 

That was such a lot of babbling rubbish :lol::D

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I love eating fish, and i'd love to try pike, but never had the heart to bop it on the head and cook it up.

 

I love it when im at the sea with some mackeral feathers, catching them and sticking them straight on a disposible BBQ. Cant beat that taste. Just not sure if i can do it to a pike, i think i respect them to much.

 

I suppose, in some areas like large lakes or Lochs, a few being caught for food wouldn't do to much harm, as long as it applied simlar laws to Trout and salmon fishing

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The last 2 posts really reflect our difference in opinions on a subject and have been carefully worded, not to cause offence or upset other users, for that I thank you guys, very carefully and nicely said.

 

Neither post looked like Babble to me, both made sense and were understandable.

 

Goblin, you must be the same sort of age as me? (late 30's?) and I know how much you, like me, have had a country style upbringing.

 

Proper Country Folk and older people do have an understanding of the country maybe more than the current "city dwellers" and Animal Rights activists?

 

As an older person I was brought up on catching your dinner, Pike, Rabbits, and killing your own, the chickens when they stopped laying, and Pigs etc, as well as buying from the Local Shop. The nearest Supermarket was 7miles away, we were more self sufficient than now

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Guest fenboy

One member has accused me of being an "arm chair natralist "! his veiw is that trout water pikehave an excelarated growth rate so it is ok to eat them , true they do but they also have a much reduced life span , dont know how i managed to work that out sitting in my arm chair ! another reason given is that a lake is over stocked with small pike , i thought it was common knowledge that the removal of pike often results in an increased rate of survival of the next year class so even more pike in future , pike will always find a natural balance .

As for growth rates some carp strains are reaching 20+ in around 4 years so is it ok to eat those !!!!

in my opinion there is absolutly no differance between eating a pike and eating a carp the latter im told taste much better , how can one been seen as different to the other ? i would not dream of eating either, also i am baffled as to how yuo reconise a pike as being a "imature male " could someone explain im ashamed to say that in the near 30 years i have been fishing for them i can not tell a young male or a young female apart ! we all know female fish grow bigger but as far as im aware thet are not born at 20lb+ but for their first few years are just small pike !!

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"population growth rate" In a trout fishery which is stocked by man, not left fallow. Amazing what you dont know after fishing for thirty years for them, yet you obviously think you know thw waters I talk of well enough to decide what is best, regardless of the man who does this for a living (and very well too) making his informed decisions :roll::roll::roll:

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One member has accused me of being an "arm chair natralist "! his veiw is that trout water pikehave an excelarated growth rate so it is ok to eat them , true they do but they also have a much reduced life span , dont know how i managed to work that out sitting in my arm chair ! another reason given is that a lake is over stocked with small pike , i thought it was common knowledge that the removal of pike often results in an increased rate of survival of the next year class so even more pike in future , pike will always find a natural balance .

As for growth rates some carp strains are reaching 20+ in around 4 years so is it ok to eat those !!!!

in my opinion there is absolutly no differance between eating a pike and eating a carp the latter im told taste much better , how can one been seen as different to the other ? i would not dream of eating either, also i am baffled as to how yuo reconise a pike as being a "imature male " could someone explain im ashamed to say that in the near 30 years i have been fishing for them i can not tell a young male or a young female apart ! we all know female fish grow bigger but as far as im aware thet are not born at 20lb+ but for their first few years are just small pike !!

 

 

Fenboy,

I read your post and I double checked with Goblins, the Pike are removed from a Trout Water Stock Pond, which there are not going to want to be any Pike in at all, or a minimum.

In fact in certain Trout Waters in East Anglia I know that Pike are still removed from them. In some cases the Larger Fish are sold on as Stock to a Club by the owner. The smaller Pike end up as dinner for a few people on the Estate to which the Fishery belongs.

 

Regarding Eating Carp, that is the reason that Carp were stocked into the British Isles, by the Monks, not for the Fishing. It is our current status that we return most of the fish we catch. In the rest of Europe, France, Germany, the Eastern End of Europe, Carp are regarded as food. You go to a Restaurant in Germany and you choose the fish you eat. In the Czech Republic and other parts of Europe Carp are the Christmas Dinner!

It is also that reason we started playing with the Genetics, to produce a Fish that was devoid of scales so that Cooks would have less problems in preparing the fish.

 

Do you think that Fish Farms are going to care whether the Carp they produced are going to end up as a Carp in a Lake or as a Carp on a Slab in Morrisons, Sainsbury's or Tescos?

 

To be honest if we are producing a Fish that is sustainable and is edible, do you think that it is going to be Ok to eat freshwater Fish? After all we have fished out various Sea Fish and taken the Stocks to bare minimum.

Again, it is only the fact that the farthest we are from the Coast, I believe, 250miles is the reason that we started eating Sea Fish. 250miles in a Car, maximum of 12hours, about the length of time before Fresh Sea Fish would go off.

 

Freshwater Fish used to be a regular part of our Diet and has only changed since the 60's and even 70's?

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Guest fenboy
i do eat pike and i do eat zander.

 

the pike never get taken out unless ive been told to by the ballifs.

 

also i never take out large pike and only jacks.

As i said in a earlier post it seems the pike eaters among you think you will do no harm because "i only take jacks " so once again i will ask how do you tell the difference between a jack (small male ) and a small female for those of you who are eating the later are robbing us of the big pike of tomorrow fact.

Perhaps goblin would explain as he seems to know and feels i should too after 30 years fishing for them I am sure there are many more of people out there who would also like to know as i have also asked two mates with over 70 years of experience between them and they dont know either.

As for knowing more about the water than the man who looks after it , i would say i know about as much about it as goblin does about me , arm chair natralist indeed how little you know !!!! :roll:

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Guest fenboy
One member has accused me of being an "arm chair natralist "! his veiw is that trout water pikehave an excelarated growth rate so it is ok to eat them , true they do but they also have a much reduced life span , dont know how i managed to work that out sitting in my arm chair ! another reason given is that a lake is over stocked with small pike , i thought it was common knowledge that the removal of pike often results in an increased rate of survival of the next year class so even more pike in future , pike will always find a natural balance .

As for growth rates some carp strains are reaching 20+ in around 4 years so is it ok to eat those !!!!

in my opinion there is absolutly no differance between eating a pike and eating a carp the latter im told taste much better , how can one been seen as different to the other ? i would not dream of eating either, also i am baffled as to how yuo reconise a pike as being a "imature male " could someone explain im ashamed to say that in the near 30 years i have been fishing for them i can not tell a young male or a young female apart ! we all know female fish grow bigger but as far as im aware thet are not born at 20lb+ but for their first few years are just small pike !!

 

 

Fenboy,

I read your post and I double checked with Goblins, the Pike are removed from a Trout Water Stock Pond, which there are not going to want to be any Pike in at all, or a minimum.

In fact in certain Trout Waters in East Anglia I know that Pike are still removed from them. In some cases the Larger Fish are sold on as Stock to a Club by the owner. The smaller Pike end up as dinner for a few people on the Estate to which the Fishery belongs.

 

Regarding Eating Carp, that is the reason that Carp were stocked into the British Isles, by the Monks, not for the Fishing. It is our current status that we return most of the fish we catch. In the rest of Europe, France, Germany, the Eastern End of Europe, Carp are regarded as food. You go to a Restaurant in Germany and you choose the fish you eat. In the Czech Republic and other parts of Europe Carp are the Christmas Dinner!

It is also that reason we started playing with the Genetics, to produce a Fish that was devoid of scales so that Cooks would have less problems in preparing the fish.

 

Do you think that Fish Farms are going to care whether the Carp they produced are going to end up as a Carp in a Lake or as a Carp on a Slab in Morrisons, Sainsbury's or Tescos?

 

To be honest if we are producing a Fish that is sustainable and is edible, do you think that it is going to be Ok to eat freshwater Fish? After all we have fished out various Sea Fish and taken the Stocks to bare minimum.

Again, it is only the fact that the farthest we are from the Coast, I believe, 250miles is the reason that we started eating Sea Fish. 250miles in a Car, maximum of 12hours, about the length of time before Fresh Sea Fish would go off.

 

Freshwater Fish used to be a regular part of our Diet and has only changed since the 60's and even 70's?

A more balanced veiw nick

But im sure there would be an absolute outcry on here if we started to agree that there would be no harm in eating the occasional carp .

I have no problem at all with carp being eaten if they are brought from tesco etc or straight from the fish farm ,not that i could bring myself to eat it, as you mention whats wrong with eating sustainable fish, unfortunatly though pike are not sustainable in the same way as carp and thier removal is having a bad effect on the predator fishing in the fens thanks mainly to our eastern european friends but also to the uneducated " i will just take a jack" angler , pike grow slower, die younger and suffer more from predation, a carp stocked at 4lb does not have to worry about being eaten by a 20lb carp ! also as nearly all fen drains are managed by clubs with mainly match fishing intrests do you think they will shell out money to re stock pike ? i cant see it

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One member has accused me of being an "arm chair natralist "! his veiw is that trout water pikehave an excelarated growth rate so it is ok to eat them , true they do but they also have a much reduced life span , dont know how i managed to work that out sitting in my arm chair ! another reason given is that a lake is over stocked with small pike , i thought it was common knowledge that the removal of pike often results in an increased rate of survival of the next year class so even more pike in future , pike will always find a natural balance .

As for growth rates some carp strains are reaching 20+ in around 4 years so is it ok to eat those !!!!

in my opinion there is absolutly no differance between eating a pike and eating a carp the latter im told taste much better , how can one been seen as different to the other ? i would not dream of eating either, also i am baffled as to how yuo reconise a pike as being a "imature male " could someone explain im ashamed to say that in the near 30 years i have been fishing for them i can not tell a young male or a young female apart ! we all know female fish grow bigger but as far as im aware thet are not born at 20lb+ but for their first few years are just small pike !!

 

 

Fenboy,

I read your post and I double checked with Goblins, the Pike are removed from a Trout Water Stock Pond, which there are not going to want to be any Pike in at all, or a minimum.

In fact in certain Trout Waters in East Anglia I know that Pike are still removed from them. In some cases the Larger Fish are sold on as Stock to a Club by the owner. The smaller Pike end up as dinner for a few people on the Estate to which the Fishery belongs.

 

Regarding Eating Carp, that is the reason that Carp were stocked into the British Isles, by the Monks, not for the Fishing. It is our current status that we return most of the fish we catch. In the rest of Europe, France, Germany, the Eastern End of Europe, Carp are regarded as food. You go to a Restaurant in Germany and you choose the fish you eat. In the Czech Republic and other parts of Europe Carp are the Christmas Dinner!

It is also that reason we started playing with the Genetics, to produce a Fish that was devoid of scales so that Cooks would have less problems in preparing the fish.

 

Do you think that Fish Farms are going to care whether the Carp they produced are going to end up as a Carp in a Lake or as a Carp on a Slab in Morrisons, Sainsbury's or Tescos?

 

To be honest if we are producing a Fish that is sustainable and is edible, do you think that it is going to be Ok to eat freshwater Fish? After all we have fished out various Sea Fish and taken the Stocks to bare minimum.

Again, it is only the fact that the farthest we are from the Coast, I believe, 250miles is the reason that we started eating Sea Fish. 250miles in a Car, maximum of 12hours, about the length of time before Fresh Sea Fish would go off.

 

Freshwater Fish used to be a regular part of our Diet and has only changed since the 60's and even 70's?

A more balanced veiw nick

But im sure there would be an absolute outcry on here if we started to agree that there would be no harm in eating the occasional carp .

I have no problem at all with carp being eaten if they are brought from tesco etc or straight from the fish farm ,not that i could bring myself to eat it, as you mention whats wrong with eating sustainable fish, unfortunatly though pike are not sustainable in the same way as carp and thier removal is having a bad effect on the predator fishing in the fens thanks mainly to our eastern european friends but also to the uneducated " i will just take a jack" angler , pike grow slower, die younger and suffer more from predation, a carp stocked at 4lb does not have to worry about being eaten by a 20lb carp ! also as nearly all fen drains are managed by clubs with mainly match fishing intrests do you think they will shell out money to re stock pike ? i cant see it

 

fenboy, firstly I can appreciate your comments as the situation on the drains is totally different to mine, but that does not excuse such a blanket statement, all waters are different and as im sure you can understand what is good on the drains may not be the case in darkest cheshire on 500 yr old estate waters. have enjoyed chatting but will have to agree to disagree on this one :wink:

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i dont take pike out of evry venure i fish i only take them out of the 2 venues that i have permission to do so. and that i have also beeen TOLD TO DO SO. this lake is next to a river and when it floods the pike go in to the lake. this is a man made lake and no piek have ever been introduced. these pike are killing all other small fish and the pike are dying due to the lack of food.

 

obviously some of you would not agree with eating pike, i am not trying to change your veiws on the subject as each is to there own.

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My Dad and I took the time to go and have a look around Castle Ashby today, we walked around the first two lakes, when we got to the third (Brickyard Pond?) there was several people lure fishing for pike, the ballif was around and he came over and spoke to us, he informed us that when these men catch a small pike they have to kill it as there are to many in the lake. We saw one man catch a pike of around 3lb, he unhooked it, stabbed its gills with a knife and then as it was still moving wacked it on the head around 20 times with his forceps then left it laying on the bank. Why the pike have to be culled I don't know, could the lake not have been electro-fished? Then the fish could of been moved into another lake, and would still be alive and well, but no I suspose that would cost money where as getting some blokes to catch as many pike as they can and stab and hit them till they are dead is free.

 

Also, as they where not equipped to kill the pike humanely, could this be illegal?

 

:evil::(:roll::evil:

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A small lake (Large Pond) near where i live, in Leigh, used to be part of Pennington Flash before it was cut off by building a dirt access road. The owner of the lake lets you pike fish for free as long as you put then in the larger Flash and not back in his.

 

Anyone remember the Cull on the bridgewater canal back in the 80's early 90's. All Pike caught had to be killed, you got in trouble if you put them back in.

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I like northern pike, carp, bass, bluegill and whatever other species swim. I fish for sport and enjoyment. When the authorities think they can manage nature better than nature itself it is not right. I would never kill a fish because the government said it was the right thing to do. I enjoy all species of fish and see that none are superior to others. What is so special about those trout anyway? Why are they better than northern pike? Seems a little wrong to me. Survival of the fittest, if the trout cannot handle being in the same water as pike, maybe they should adapt over time like all other species do naturally. Good luck fishing!

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We don't have proper pike where I live, only a smallish southern relative called the Chain Pickerel. Here of course the most revered fish is the largemouth bass.

 

In one of our small 30 acre impoundments, one angler took it upon himself to kill every pickerel in the pond. Doesn't use the fish, not even for bait or cat food. Carries a cordless drill and dumps the poor critters back into the drink.

 

He thought they were eating the bass, even goes to the length of hailing anybody passing his property in a boat and telling them that the EA officer told him to kill every pickerel he caught for the benefit of the bass.

 

The bass are also becoming stunted and a slot limit has been placed on this water. ( A slot limit places restrictive limits on the size of fish that may be taken, even though most fishing is catch and release)

 

Now the pond is over run with small pickerel. Like pike, not much eats the little ones as well as the bigger ones.

 

I am inclined not to try to influence the balance in any body of water by removing one species to favor another. But, I have been wrong before ( once, I think ) and may be wrong about this....

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I'm not sure on the specifics of removing a certain species of fish from a water to help with the numbers of a different species, this has to be location specific to where ever it is so i just can't comment. It does tend to be unrealistic tho, if pike are natrually getting into a lake who are we to get them out because trout are considered a better fish. (which is untrue anyways, i have caught and eaten many wild fish of both species and i'd take pike meat over trout or salmon anyday!)

 

I will say this tho, after moving from england to canada 4 years ago i have been exposed to many differnt spiecies and ways of thinking.

 

Firstly the main species of fish targeted.... muskie (think bigger pike)

bass, both large and smallmouth

trout and salmon

walleye

pike

panfish (perch,blue gill, crappie, sunfish etc)

 

It is carp that are considered a 'garbage fish' ! coming from a place where carp are loved and even named, this took some getting used to.

Carp are snagged (foul hooked with a big treble hook, esspecialy bad during the spawn) and shot with cross bows. The thinking behind this is that carp are an invassive species and are eating the eggs of native fish. Its horrendous to see. these fish are pulled out and left to flap and die on the bank, normaly left where they are to die, at best taken home and burried under the roses as fertiliser-i kid you not! I don't even really believe that carp are hurting the stocks of native fish (not all 'native' fish are even truely native but stocked many yrs ago, now with wild populations)

 

I guess that my point is more down to wastage. i think it is disgusting to kill anything your not gonna eat. Any one catching and killing fish because they 'think' it is the best thing to do had better at least eat them!

 

Pike have absolutely delicious white flaky flesh and are really superb table fodder, they are tough to fillet as they have y bones but google how to fillet pike and you will suss it out (basically you need to cut out these small y bones that run down the lateral line). honestly they are really good.

So are perch by the way, have a look at ice fishing on lake simcoe. first time i went i couldent believe people are filleting and eating perch, i promice you they are very very good to eat!

 

Pike will balance themselves out numbers wise, if theres not enough food to support large numbers there won't be large numbers. give them a generation and they will natrually live in balance and harmony with everything else in the water.

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I have read right through this thread, and have to say I am in agreement with many of the statements posted.

The one about if you're going to kill the fish, you better eat it especially. (I do not support the killing of any healthy freshwater fish for any reason)

When I was little, I used to go pike fishing with my dad during the winter. He always seemed to catch one, (never big, usually 4 - 6lb) so club it on the head, and put a knife (A big knife) through it just behind its head, killing it more or less instantly. The pike was then taken for the fairly elderly couple 2 doors down from us, who would eat it. I had heard that the pike was fantastic eating, so was determined to try this when I begun piking again 8-9 years ago. The only problem was, it took me so long, so much traveling, and so much money to actually catch one, that after so much, I didn't have the heart to do it. (We were told by the bayliff that he would turn a blind eye to me and my bud taking 1, as long as it wasn't a big pike. Any more than one, he would report us for poaching). Anyway, after catching 5 between us (all returned, as the smallest was about 10lb!) I was glad they were back in the water. I had such a big thrill chasing them, It was only right they went back, and I got to chase them again.

I have now caught plenty of pike, and the thrill of it still gets me every time. Even when I finally caught one that was small enough to eat, I couldn't do it, as all I could think of was the effort it took to get to where I was, pike fishing wise, and the love of the sport I have stops me from dispatching and eating my quarry. The other way I look at it, is if I kill that pike, take it home, and eat it, that is one less pike I could possibly catch next time I go.

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Guest Anonymous

Brilliant thought provoking thread that I thoroughly enjoyed reading.

 

I personally can't kill anything, as far as I'm concerned meat is made by Tesco's. I'm not anti hunting however and have just finished polishing off a huge piece of venison that a mate shot, which was lovely.

 

When it comes to Pike however, I doubt there's many that are equipped or even know how to despatch one properly which in my eyes is no different to a complete novice shooting at deer, and this I'm afraid equates to animal cruelty, especially if done on a public water in the presence of the public, it does nothing whatsoever for angling. Electrofishing is really the only way on such venues and I'd refuse to follow rules (and have) if written in a club book.

 

Marlborough and district AC once had a rule that all Pike under six pounds had to be removed, it only came to light when I saw an angler with a dead low 20. I questioned it and was told it was a print mistake that they'd rectify one day when the club books ran out. I've never graced any of their water since.

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