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salokcinnodrog

Advanced Carp Fishing

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Was rather worried about a set-up published in this months Advanced Carp Fishing. A leadcore set-up with the Lead held in place alongside the Hooklink. Even though the Lead clip has been trimmed the lead may not release.

 

I've written to them and asked for an answer on its Safety Aspect. Wonder if I will get a reply :?:

 

Quote
I am writing to you with some concern over a set-up published in this months Advanced Carp Fishing on page92, used by Dan Kilgour.

 

 

This is a (semi) fixed Leadcore rig where the Lead is held in place with bait bands, alongside the Hooklink.

 

To me this is a worrying rig in that in the event of a snap off the lead may or may not release. The Bands may simply hold the lead in place, so that the Lead Clip cannot release even though the Lead clip has been trimmed down.

 

Even in the event of the lead releasing, any break off above the Leadcore and the fish will be trailing a rig, plus the length of Leadcore. I'm sure that you are aware this can or could lead to a snagged fish and a slow death. The water does not need to be snaggy for the Leadcore to snag. I have seen Leadcore and mainline tangled in weed, luckily with NO fish attached, but it does not take much for any fish to be snagged when Leadcore is used.

 

 

In these days of Carp Welfare, this does not look like a Safe rig, and does not show any concern over Fish Capture, showing Fish first, and catch at all costs.

 

To my mind the only safe arrangement where leadcore is used is where the rig can come away from the leadcore as in a Helicopter set-up where the rig is free to slide away.

 

I look forward to your response to this comment

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Was rather worried about a set-up published in this months Advanced Carp Fishing. A leadcore set-up with the Lead held in place alongside the Hooklink. Even thogh the Lead clip has been trimmed the lead may not release.

 

I've written to them and asked for an answer on its Safety Aspect. Wonder if I will get a reply :?:

 

I am writing to you with some concern over a set-up published in this months Advanced Carp Fishing on page92, used by Dan Kilgour.

 

 

This is a (semi) fixed Leadcore rig where the Lead is held in place with bait bands, alongside the Hooklink.

 

To me this is a worrying rig in that in the event of a snap off the lead may or may not release. The Bands may simply hold the lead in place, so that the Lead Clip cannot release even though the Lead clip has been trimmed down.

 

Even in the event of the lead releasing, any break off above the Leadcore and the fish will be trailing a rig, plus the length of Leadcore. I'm sure that you are aware this can or could lead to a snagged fish and a slow death. The water does not need to be snaggy for the Leadcore to snag. I have seen Leadcore and mainline tangled in weed, luckily with NO fish attached, but it does not take much for any fish to be snagged when Leadcore is used.

 

 

In these days of Carp Welfare, this does not look like a Safe rig, and does not show any concern over Fish Capture, showing Fish first, and catch at all costs.

 

To my mind the only safe arrangement where leadcore is used is where the rig can come away from the leadcore as in a Helicopter set-up where the rig is free to slide away.

 

I look forward to your response to this comment

 

Nick, I applaud you mate. I have been banging on about the dangers of lead core now for some time and to see another quality angler with similar views, and prepared to put his money where his mouth is, is music to my ears.

The amazing thing is that, as I read you post, I am already in the middle of writing to a tackle company to try and persuade them to be the first to ad a "carp health warning" on their lead core packages.

It wouls be good to get as many like minded anglers as possible to put this point to some more magazines. Maybe if we can get the snowball rolling we can save any more carp suffering the damage that I have found to a couple of my fish because of lead core.

Well done mate.

Keith

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Was rather worried about a set-up published in this months Advanced Carp Fishing. A leadcore set-up with the Lead held in place alongside the Hooklink. Even thogh the Lead clip has been trimmed the lead may not release.

 

I've written to them and asked for an answer on its Safety Aspect. Wonder if I will get a reply :?:

 

I am writing to you with some concern over a set-up published in this months Advanced Carp Fishing on page92, used by Dan Kilgour.

 

 

This is a (semi) fixed Leadcore rig where the Lead is held in place with bait bands, alongside the Hooklink.

 

To me this is a worrying rig in that in the event of a snap off the lead may or may not release. The Bands may simply hold the lead in place, so that the Lead Clip cannot release even though the Lead clip has been trimmed down.

 

Even in the event of the lead releasing, any break off above the Leadcore and the fish will be trailing a rig, plus the length of Leadcore. I'm sure that you are aware this can or could lead to a snagged fish and a slow death. The water does not need to be snaggy for the Leadcore to snag. I have seen Leadcore and mainline tangled in weed, luckily with NO fish attached, but it does not take much for any fish to be snagged when Leadcore is used.

 

 

In these days of Carp Welfare, this does not look like a Safe rig, and does not show any concern over Fish Capture, showing Fish first, and catch at all costs.

 

To my mind the only safe arrangement where leadcore is used is where the rig can come away from the leadcore as in a Helicopter set-up where the rig is free to slide away.

 

I look forward to your response to this comment

 

Nick, I applaud you mate. I have been banging on about the dangers of lead core now for some time and to see another quality angler with similar views, and prepared to put his money where his mouth is, is music to my ears.

The amazing thing is that, as I read you post, I am already in the middle of writing to a tackle company to try and persuade them to be the first to ad a "carp health warning" on their lead core packages.

It wouls be good to get as many like minded anglers as possible to put this point to some more magazines. Maybe if we can get the snowball rolling we can save any more carp suffering the damage that I have found to a couple of my fish because of lead core.

Well done mate.

Keith

 

Where did you get quality from? :shock:8):lol:

Don't know I qualify for that :lol::lol:

 

It took a lot of playing around for me to understand the dangers of Leadcore. I actually got into the water to check it on 1 of my waters, in the middle of winter, lets just say it was cold to various parts of the body and hands :shock:

 

I queried something else that was printed a few months back, the practise of Curing Baits in salt. While I know and understand the need for salt in the diet, I was worried that the effects of excess salt can cause harm, as in humans.

Some of what goes into the magazines is there to sell issues, (obviously), and advertising has to be used to pay for it, so there is 2 lots of income, one of which is guaranteed :wink:

Yet it worries me that so little is put into Carp Care and Fish Safety. The other point that winds me up is these anglers are "sponsored" for product plugs.

Surely you should use what works for you rather than a blatant advert in every article you write?

 

edit for typo

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Was rather worried about a set-up published in this months Advanced Carp Fishing. A leadcore set-up with the Lead held in place alongside the Hooklink. Even thogh the Lead clip has been trimmed the lead may not release.

 

I've written to them and asked for an answer on its Safety Aspect. Wonder if I will get a reply :?:

 

I am writing to you with some concern over a set-up published in this months Advanced Carp Fishing on page92, used by Dan Kilgour.

 

 

This is a (semi) fixed Leadcore rig where the Lead is held in place with bait bands, alongside the Hooklink.

 

To me this is a worrying rig in that in the event of a snap off the lead may or may not release. The Bands may simply hold the lead in place, so that the Lead Clip cannot release even though the Lead clip has been trimmed down.

 

Even in the event of the lead releasing, any break off above the Leadcore and the fish will be trailing a rig, plus the length of Leadcore. I'm sure that you are aware this can or could lead to a snagged fish and a slow death. The water does not need to be snaggy for the Leadcore to snag. I have seen Leadcore and mainline tangled in weed, luckily with NO fish attached, but it does not take much for any fish to be snagged when Leadcore is used.

 

 

In these days of Carp Welfare, this does not look like a Safe rig, and does not show any concern over Fish Capture, showing Fish first, and catch at all costs.

 

To my mind the only safe arrangement where leadcore is used is where the rig can come away from the leadcore as in a Helicopter set-up where the rig is free to slide away.

 

I look forward to your response to this comment

 

Nick, I applaud you mate. I have been banging on about the dangers of lead core now for some time and to see another quality angler with similar views, and prepared to put his money where his mouth is, is music to my ears.

The amazing thing is that, as I read you post, I am already in the middle of writing to a tackle company to try and persuade them to be the first to ad a "carp health warning" on their lead core packages.

It wouls be good to get as many like minded anglers as possible to put this point to some more magazines. Maybe if we can get the snowball rolling we can save any more carp suffering the damage that I have found to a couple of my fish because of lead core.

Well done mate.

Keith

 

Where did you get quality from? :shock:8):lol:

Don't know I qualify for that :lol::lol:

 

It took a lot of playing around for me to understand the dangers of Leadcore. I actually got into the water to check it on 1 of my waters, in the middle of winter, lets just say it was cold to various parts of the body and hands :shock:

 

I queried something else that was printed a few months back, the practise of Curing Baits in salt. While I know and understand the need for salt in the diet, I was worried that the effects of excess salt can cause harm, as in humans.

Some of what goes into the magazines is there to sell issues, (obviously), and advertising has to be used to pay for it, so there is 2 lots of income, one of which is guaranteed :wink:

Yet it worries me that so little is put into Carp Care and Fish Safety. The other point that winds me up is these anglers are "sponsored" for product plugs.

Surely you should use what works for you rather than a blatant advert in every article you write?

 

Did I put "quality"? silly me. :)

I again totally agree with your comments and I think anglers really need to realise that a lot (in fact probably most) of the items being promoted are purely because the angler doing the promoting has to justify his existence to his masters (the tackle company) and those items are not necessary and sometimes not even used by the angler for his own fishing.

I am lucky that I have kept my consultancy with ESP but I am free to use and promote the rigs and tackle that I feel will do the job best. I would just add that I do use a hell of a lot of the ESP products but that is because they have continued to produce big fish for me over all the years since ESP was launched.

Keith

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Thought I'd bring this up again, firstly because I'm obviously wanting people to consider the risks of Leadcore and try to prevent any fish being snagged up because of incorrect or risky use of Leadcore.

 

I know a club near to me has just banned any Fixed and Semi-Fixed Set-ups, and made the rules so that only Running Leads are allowed. This does not cover Leadcore on any Running rig, so a potentially dangerous rig could still be used.

 

Finally sadly I have not yet received a reply to my e-mail asking about the potential risks of the rig as it appeared in the magazine.

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You wont recieve one Nick, last year i emailed them about photos in articles of anglers out on boats with no lifejackets and the bad example it set to others. They never got back to me about that either, personally i think Martin Ford who was editor at the time doesn't like any critisim.

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Nick I have writen to the magazines about various things in the past to no avail.

I think I have said this before,I used leadcore 30 years ago,how many can say that?

I stoped using plain leadcore because of fish dammage, and moved onto coated stuff[smooth nylon covering],I stoped using this because it kinked badley.

I started to use polyfused leader and to date I have had no problems, but as you know I check to make sure things work right.

I have put this in writing to mags without their responce.

Same about them banging on about who invented the hair rig,even though its plainly been used for a long time.

No lifejackets,death rigs promoted etc etc.

Maybe if I was to send them my jurnals and some photos they MIGHT take me serious and reply. but I do not think they would change there ways.

I like you, Keith and others who care, will try and make others realise how dangerous leadcore and some other things are.

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Nick I have writen to the magazines about various things in the past to no avail.

I think I have said this before,I used leadcore 30 years ago,how many can say that?

I stoped using plain leadcore because of fish dammage, and moved onto coated stuff[smooth nylon covering],I stoped using this because it kinked badley.

I started to use polyfused leader and to date I have had no problems, but as you know I check to make sure things work right.

I have put this in writing to mags without their responce.

Same about them banging on about who invented the hair rig,even though its plainly been used for a long time.

No lifejackets,death rigs promoted etc etc.

Maybe if I was to send them my jurnals and some photos they MIGHT take me serious and reply. but I do not think they would change there ways.

I like you, Keith and others who care, will try and make others realise how dangerous leadcore and some other things are.

 

Part of me wants to laugh about the conduct of magazine's. I know what you mean about the hair rig scenario, my Dad was using a variation of it when i was a boy, and i'm 46 now! John Rawle claimed to have invented up-tiding, when it's been used out of neccesity for years.

There ends my laughing though, some of these commercially driven rigs and ads are nothing short of a disgrace.

We moan about tethers and the like, which are obviously not fish friendly. But with these unapproachable editors of the magazines, at least we can do something about it as an angling community, and boycott them.

I'm sure they are slowly bleeding to death with the advent of internet sites anyway, at least these sites can be responsibly policed.

I won't be sad when the scales are tipped and the dinosaurs in publishing lose their clout!

In the meantime, :evil::evil::evil:

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what are the dangers of using leadcore? cheers

 

There are absolutely loads of threads about Leadcore on here :wink: , although this one is probably the most specific in terms of Test results:

http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=32598

 

Its so annoying that you do something to highlight the risks of something that is published. I queried last year about the practice of Curing Baits in Salt (Frank, you also commented when we had a thread about it), yet again had no reply

 

You would have thought that Magazines should be aware that people will follow or copy would they do, and as such should accept that they are accountable to the readers :?

Publishing such an article that is basically advocating "Fish at all costs" rather than Fish Care and safety is not acceptable at all. Even more so is the "angler" who wrote the article should be brought to task for his fishing, and made aware of his lack of Care.

 

On this forum, the majority are caring and knowledgeable, and even more so others want to learn. Yet how can we educate if this Magazine (and others) is promoting irresponsible actions

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what are the dangers of using leadcore? cheers

 

I'm not going to bore everyone to death but the inherent weight of a length of lead core (even after the lead has discharged) is sufficient to hold a hook in place. Add to that that it will then drop into roots and snags and hold a "kink" easily and perfectly and it is a potential death rig even when tied properly. personally I have "rescued" 7 carp from lead core tether rigs, one of which (mid thirty common) has a very badly deformed mouth, another (36 lb mirror) we had to move to another site because of the damage to its mouth which made it impossible to eat baits ever again and another which had snapped its bottom jaw and I had to kill and bury. Those experiences were enough for me.

Keith

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what are the dangers of using leadcore? cheers

 

I'm not going to bore everyone to death but the inherent weight of a length of lead core (even after the lead has discharged) is sufficient to hold a hook in place. Add to that that it will then drop into roots and snags and hold a "kink" easily and perfectly and it is a potential death rig even when tied properly. personally I have "rescued" 7 carp from lead core tether rigs, one of which (mid thirty common) has a very badly deformed mouth, another (36 lb mirror) we had to move to another site because of the damage to its mouth which made it impossible to eat baits ever again and another which had snapped its bottom jaw and I had to kill and bury. Those experiences were enough for me.

Keith

Keith the dangers are well known by a lot of us and like you I have rescued carp in a right old state.

However we must keep trying to educate anglers if we can, after all if we as educated anglers will not do this, who will? :wink:

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You wont recieve one Nick, last year i emailed them about photos in articles of anglers out on boats with no lifejackets and the bad example it set to others. They never got back to me about that either, personally i think Martin Ford who was editor at the time doesn't like any critisim.

 

I have to say that I have emailed Martin ford on a few occasions and he has always got back to me quickly and has been very gracious with his replies to criticism. He has been Editor for Carpworld for a while now and I thought he left ACF in 2007ish. In his “Carp leader” article in Carpworld he often asks for feedback. Are you sure he was the Editor of Advanced Carp fishing when you mailed him last year?

 

I just thought you might be criticising the wrong man.

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what are the dangers of using leadcore? cheers

 

I'm not going to bore everyone to death but the inherent weight of a length of lead core (even after the lead has discharged) is sufficient to hold a hook in place. Add to that that it will then drop into roots and snags and hold a "kink" easily and perfectly and it is a potential death rig even when tied properly. personally I have "rescued" 7 carp from lead core tether rigs, one of which (mid thirty common) has a very badly deformed mouth, another (36 lb mirror) we had to move to another site because of the damage to its mouth which made it impossible to eat baits ever again and another which had snapped its bottom jaw and I had to kill and bury. Those experiences were enough for me.

Keith

 

i have always fished with leadcore and never had any problems with it. reading this post and the posts on the thread i am recosidering changing to another leader as i dont want to risk putting fish through what you have described here. if leadcore isnt safe, what is safe as a leader then?

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what are the dangers of using leadcore? cheers

 

I'm not going to bore everyone to death but the inherent weight of a length of lead core (even after the lead has discharged) is sufficient to hold a hook in place. Add to that that it will then drop into roots and snags and hold a "kink" easily and perfectly and it is a potential death rig even when tied properly. personally I have "rescued" 7 carp from lead core tether rigs, one of which (mid thirty common) has a very badly deformed mouth, another (36 lb mirror) we had to move to another site because of the damage to its mouth which made it impossible to eat baits ever again and another which had snapped its bottom jaw and I had to kill and bury. Those experiences were enough for me.

Keith

 

i have always fished with leadcore and never had any problems with it. reading this post and the posts on the thread i am recosidering changing to another leader as i dont want to risk putting fish through what you have described here. if leadcore isnt safe, what is safe as a leader then?

 

My initial reply has to be "Do you really need any leader?" The safest rig is the rig with the least knots. I have now used light running rigs with my main line straight through to the hook link swivel and that set up has caught me a large number of big fish. The big plusses are that it transmits bites much better (you know when the carp moves the bait not the lead) and is the safest rig bar none. If you snap off at the cast or playing a fish it is most likely to snap at the hook link swivel and that will leave the carp with just the hook link to deal with.

leaders are only really necessary if you are casting long distances or if the lake bed is very sharp.

I will end by saying well done in being so quick to take note of the recent posts. There are a lot of anglers who either don't listen or don't want to listen.

I will be trying to underline Nicls e-mail by contacting Cash Farnam on Monday to see if we can get some response.

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nick, good luck mate, i dont know if you remember about 18months ago i wrote to total carp about an unsafe rig and after a lot of debating with them and doing a poll on here regarding the rig they gave in and accepted it should not have been featured, so with this in mind keep on and they might admit they are wrong and do what total carp done and (sort of) admited it in a later edition. good luck though

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what are the dangers of using leadcore? cheers

 

I'm not going to bore everyone to death but the inherent weight of a length of lead core (even after the lead has discharged) is sufficient to hold a hook in place. Add to that that it will then drop into roots and snags and hold a "kink" easily and perfectly and it is a potential death rig even when tied properly. personally I have "rescued" 7 carp from lead core tether rigs, one of which (mid thirty common) has a very badly deformed mouth, another (36 lb mirror) we had to move to another site because of the damage to its mouth which made it impossible to eat baits ever again and another which had snapped its bottom jaw and I had to kill and bury. Those experiences were enough for me.

Keith

 

i have always fished with leadcore and never had any problems with it. reading this post and the posts on the thread i am recosidering changing to another leader as i dont want to risk putting fish through what you have described here. if leadcore isnt safe, what is safe as a leader then?

 

My initial reply has to be "Do you really need any leader?" The safest rig is the rig with the least knots. I have now used light running rigs with my main line straight through to the hook link swivel and that set up has caught me a large number of big fish. The big plusses are that it transmits bites much better (you know when the carp moves the bait not the lead) and is the safest rig bar none. If you snap off at the cast or playing a fish it is most likely to snap at the hook link swivel and that will leave the carp with just the hook link to deal with.

leaders are only really necessary if you are casting long distances or if the lake bed is very sharp.

I will end by saying well done in being so quick to take note of the recent posts. There are a lot of anglers who either don't listen or don't want to listen.

I will be trying to underline Nicls e-mail by contacting Cash Farnam on Monday to see if we can get some response.

 

thanks for the advice, i was wondering though is that going to give the same abrasion resistance that leadcore does. also does it lay flat on the bottom aswell or may be better to change to something like flourocarbon with the same thing in mind?

 

cheers! :D

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You can change to fluoro main line if it increases your confidence and I do use it but I have also had a lot of success with ESP crystal. Try fishing the line slack or semi-slack and you'll be amazed at how good the bites and conversion rates are.

Be lucky

Keith

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what are the dangers of using leadcore? cheers

 

I'm not going to bore everyone to death but the inherent weight of a length of lead core (even after the lead has discharged) is sufficient to hold a hook in place. Add to that that it will then drop into roots and snags and hold a "kink" easily and perfectly and it is a potential death rig even when tied properly. personally I have "rescued" 7 carp from lead core tether rigs, one of which (mid thirty common) has a very badly deformed mouth, another (36 lb mirror) we had to move to another site because of the damage to its mouth which made it impossible to eat baits ever again and another which had snapped its bottom jaw and I had to kill and bury. Those experiences were enough for me.

Keith

 

i have always fished with leadcore and never had any problems with it. reading this post and the posts on the thread i am recosidering changing to another leader as i dont want to risk putting fish through what you have described here. if leadcore isnt safe, what is safe as a leader then?

 

My initial reply has to be "Do you really need any leader?" The safest rig is the rig with the least knots. I have now used light running rigs with my main line straight through to the hook link swivel and that set up has caught me a large number of big fish. The big plusses are that it transmits bites much better (you know when the carp moves the bait not the lead) and is the safest rig bar none. If you snap off at the cast or playing a fish it is most likely to snap at the hook link swivel and that will leave the carp with just the hook link to deal with.

leaders are only really necessary if you are casting long distances or if the lake bed is very sharp.

I will end by saying well done in being so quick to take note of the recent posts. There are a lot of anglers who either don't listen or don't want to listen.

I will be trying to underline Nicls e-mail by contacting Cash Farnam on Monday to see if we can get some response.

 

thanks for the advice, i was wondering though is that going to give the same abrasion resistance that leadcore does. also does it lay flat on the bottom aswell or may be better to change to something like flourocarbon with the same thing in mind?

 

cheers! :D

 

Anything above about 40metres and I think that the line will be laying along the bottom anyway :wink:

 

As line leaves the rod tip it arcs down and that continues in the water until it gets to the point at which it is flat on the bottom.

It will be laying on the bottom even earlier if you are using Running Leads and Slack lines.

 

To be honest, how much abrasion resistance do you need, obviously more if fishing snags, but many lines are currently over-rated strength wise anyway. (A few have been so over rated that they were forced to be re-rated correctly)

 

A 15lb line should have a diameter of approx 0.35mm, yet many 15lb lines that are sold are actually 0.38-0.40, which is a line of 18 or even 20lb.

Now if you go to the Tackle box line tests (link in The Tackle and Equipment stickies), then I think that you can see that a thicker line is going to have an increased abrasion resistance because it is thicker. Over rated lines are sold as they are to make anglers think "Oh thats good stuff, its rated at 15lb and its breaking at 20lb+".

 

I played a lot of fish on 12lb line that went through Lily pads when I didn't check what I was loading my spools with. I had loaded them up in winter with 12lb for the reduced strength needed as the weeds weren't that heavy, then in Spring I put fresh line on, and didn't read the spool :?:oops: , and played a number of fish before I checked the spools.

 

Last April I put P-line Floroclear on my reels, and that is a fluorocarbon coated line (I have reviewed it somewhere), which does disappear in water.

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just read this thread and found myself nodding in agreement with most of it, i'm glad other anglers are standing up and saying no to the use of leadcore.

fisheries banning it is a big help and hopefully more will follow :wink:8)

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i like the idea of people testing there main lines to see where it breaks, if my main lines gonna break, i want it at the knot, the fish has a 6 inch its gotta dump. i,ve had a well known well raved about line that breaks where it likes so the said company that raves fish safty, there lead dump system might be good, but a fish trailing 70 yards of line is not, so this line used with leadcores or haevy leaders is a death trap. i pointed this out to them and all i got in response was, "we thank you for your attitude to fish saftey"

try your main line

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i like the idea of people testing there main lines to see where it breaks, if my main lines gonna break, i want it at the knot, the fish has a 6 inch its gotta dump. i,ve had a well known well raved about line that breaks where it likes so the said company that raves fish safty, there lead dump system might be good, but a fish trailing 70 yards of line is not, so this line used with leadcores or haevy leaders is a death trap. i pointed this out to them and all i got in response was, "we thank you for your attitude to fish saftey"

try your main line

 

Thats a good point, very few knots retain 100% of the breaking strain of the mainline, I think the Palomar is the closest(?). I know that when I have had snap-offs it is normally down to line damage that I may not have noticed, although I now often reel in with my finger touching the line as I do so.

 

Now on the Overgunned thread there is a reference to needing a Leader for Long Distance casting, and if you do use a Leader, then to my view it should be far safer for the fish if you are using a Running set-up. Even if you need to fish tight lines (or to keep Keith happy in my case prefer :wink::lol: ), then by fishing a tight line with the Running lead, you may well be making the Lead a Semi-Fixed set-up because of the tight line. In the event of a crack off should that misfortune happen, then the Lead on the Run Ring can come over any leader knot.

 

Go back to the Leader though, if there are any snags etc (even weed), then it is still possible to leave a tethered Carp and so Carp Care and Safety needs to be considered

 

The "Overgunned" thread may also be useful

http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=22657

 

Hope that makes sense, I have had a Migraine Headache for a few days and am still struggling to put thoughts into words :shock::evil:

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