Jump to content
Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Sign in to follow this  
salokcinnodrog

Advanced Carp Fishing

Recommended Posts

It isn't as simple as not using leaders full stop,just think about this.

Over the last few years I have fished a number of different water but two realy come to mind.

The first was an estate lake I fished last year,unfished before me certainly since the 2nd world war.

I went out in the boat to look round and poke about with a pole. I discovered that a 15ft window pole would sink compleatly.

Now somewhere on here if you look you will find a responce from me about fishing on top of silt, I basicaly said why fish on top when the fish normaly feed in the silt.

But there is no way you can fish in that type of silt, I tried with running leads of 1 oz upto 3oz,each simply sank to a depth not fishable.

I resorted to very thick leaders tied up as chods, and had results.

The second was a pit I fished, casting to a feature at 140y, I don't know how to cast safely that range without leaders.

I try not to use leaders if possible,but when I do I make sure they are safe.

PS added after thought.

On ultra pressured waters where carp know whats going on,I have had a free lined bait out to see carp spook.

They do this as quite often when they are in the area wafting things about,slack lines move and this spooks, a heavy leader will not move in this situation.

Im not saying this acures everywhere,and all the time, but it does happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Over the last couple of months I have bought some fishing tackle,some from Judds that I collected and some from Ericks that was sent.

Now both places packed my gear in boxes stuffed with angling magazines.

Advanced,carptalk and one new to me angling times carp,dated from dec 07 to jan 09.

I have just spent an hour or so drifting through through the pages[i must be sad or daft],basicaly looking at picture till I found something to catch my eye.

Some strange people and ideas about, thats my conclusion, why? well Ill tell you.

Lets just take the jan edition of anging times uk carp.

In it is an artical by an anger showing us HIS version of the chod and how to tie it and telling everyone how great it is.

Now nothing strange in this you might think except less than a year ago in exactly the same magazine was Terry Hern telling readers how to tie his version of the chod,exactly the same as the one in this months :shock: only he told you the name of the knots and why he uses them and who the idea came from :wink:

Next comes someone telling us to use leadcore on a running rig set up.

To articals about using salt,one as an adative the other for drying bait.

This is just one magazine and if I was to go through all of them I would have to go on and on.

Come on who are they trying to kid :wink: .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I've just sent a reminder e-mail that I have not yet received a reply from the first e-mail.

 

I'm not normally happy at leaving a link to another forum, although in this case I think that because of the discussion and subject being so important, that it should be looked at or seen.

 

 

Dear Sir

 

I am writing too you regarding a previous e-mail I sent on 23rd January, (quoted below) regarding a rig you published in the issue of February 2009.

 

I have received no reply to the original e-mail, and am hoping that this is an oversight rather than intentional.

 

The rig and letter in question has been debated quite strongly on a couple of Carp Fishing forums, Carp.forum, and carp.com. In fact on both forums, even Richard Cash Farnan and Keith Moors have commented on the rig and its publication.

I will give you the weblinks for the 2 forum pages:

 

http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=38886

 

 

http://www.carpforum.co.uk/Shared/Messages.asp?TopicID=187059

 

 

I hope that these links show you that there is a lot of feeling involved, and also that to a few people that people are losing faith in the magazines unless they can be bothered to reply and held accountable for practices that may put fish at risk

 

Unlike many of the "Faceless" people who use them I am quite willing to stand up for myself and say if I believe something is not right or safe, especially when Fish Care is such an important part of fishing.

 

 

With something as debatable as Leadcore, already receiving publicity for the wrong reasons, angling needs to be seen to be doing something to prevent its misuse, not advertising it as the answer to every problem, and the Magazines are at the forefront of this.

 

 

Please can you give this your attention and I once again look forward to your reply

 

Nick Gordon

 

 

 

I am writing to you with some concern over a set-up published in this months Advanced Carp Fishing on page92, used by Dan Kilgour.

 

This is a (semi) fixed Leadcore rig where the Lead is held in place with bait bands, alongside the Hooklink.

To me this is a worrying rig in that in the event of a snap off the lead may or may not release. The Bands may simply hold the lead in place, so that the Lead Clip cannot release even though the Lead clip has been trimmed down.

Even in the event of the lead releasing, any break off above the Leadcore and the fish will be trailing a rig, plus the length of Leadcore. I'm sure that you are aware this can or could lead to a snagged fish and a slow death. The water does not need to be snaggy for the Leadcore to snag. I have seen Leadcore and mainline tangled in weed, luckily with NO fish attached, but it does not take much for any fish to be snagged when Leadcore is used.

 

In these days of Carp Welfare, this does not look like a Safe rig, and does not show any concern over Fish Capture, showing Fish first, and catch at all costs.

To my mind the only safe arrangement where leadcore is used is where the rig can come away from the leadcore as in a Helicopter set-up where the rig is free to slide away.

I look forward to your response to this comment

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Can someone please post a picture of the rig in question? I can't be bothered going and buying said magazine, as quite frankly, it's terrible!

 

After the last few times I've bought it, I'm thinking the same :shock:

 

danger.jpg

 

I've looked at it again, and again, and no matter how much I try to think about it, all I see is a Semi-Fixed Leadcore rig, with the lead being held in place by bands.

 

Even if the Lead does release then the fish will be trailing the Leadcore in the event of a snap-off. This to me is DEFINITELY NOT A SAFE FISH FRIENDLY SET-UP

 

Will someone please tell me and say if you think I'm wrong

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry mate I can't help but think that you are spot on and I would just add one other worry with the rig:-

He "blobs" the end of the splice tag "to keep it meat" whereas what he is really doing is thickening the splice so that the tail rubber is even harder to pull off. Try it, you'll be astonished how difficult it is to get the lead clip on over the blob and almost impossible to slide the rubber back off. Quiet frankly it looks like a rig that has never been wet and has simply been invented for an article.

Keith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry mate I can't help but think that you are spot on and I would just add one other worry with the rig:-

He "blobs" the end of the splice tag "to keep it meat" whereas what he is really doing is thickening the splice so that the tail rubber is even harder to pull off. Try it, you'll be astonished how difficult it is to get the lead clip on over the blob and almost impossible to slide the rubber back off. Quiet frankly it looks like a rig that has never been wet and has simply been invented for an article.

Keith

 

Totally agree on this one, and the blobbing of lead-core is a complete no no.

There is no point to the rig at all, and its bad practise to use such a thing.

 

If you want a safe, full bolt rig, you could set up a normal inline rig, and then put a bait band around the lead with the hooklink under the bait band, that way when the fish takes the bait the bait band pops of the lead and the hooklink, i dont know if im describing it properly but i can see it in my head :?

 

I was looking at this rig in the mag just this morning :wink: He talks of how he was fishing it in weed so that the lead actually discharges :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have just received a reply to my e-mail, but until Richard Stewart gives his permission I shan't post it

 

I did ask for permission to post his reply on the forum, but unfortunately it wasn't given.

 

However he does say that he thinks the rig is safe, and will ask Dan Kilgour for his response

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nick when I contacted an extreemely succesfull magazine last year I got a responce I wasn't expecting.

They ran an artical about spoding,and said the only way you can do it without dammage to fingers is gloves or stalls.

I pointed out they had forgoten to mention casting buttons etc, as these were my favorate due to arthritis and I could put the power on.

The resonce was "what are you talking about?never heard of them." very abrupt I thought so I responded by the following.

I sent photos of my rods with casting buttons explaing how they work and the fact that I am not a one off,but infact quite a few anglers use them.

I never got a reply or an appology for their responce first time round.

Do not hold your breath my friend for you will surely suffocate.

Frank

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not surprised Nick. For a mag editor to say that one of his articles was wrong would be like a tackle manufacturer admitting that most of his terminal bits and pieces were totally unnecessary. Some of us realise the truth and will just have to keep plugging away.

 

Vivre le revolution mes amies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm not surprised Nick. For a mag editor to say that one of his articles was wrong would be like a tackle manufacturer admitting that most of his terminal bits and pieces were totally unnecessary. Some of us realise the truth and will just have to keep plugging away.

 

Vivre le revolution mes amies.

Bonjour to you aswell Keith :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nick when I contacted an extreemely succesfull magazine last year I got a responce I wasn't expecting.

They ran an artical about spoding,and said the only way you can do it without dammage to fingers is gloves or stalls.

I pointed out they had forgoten to mention casting buttons etc, as these were my favorate due to arthritis and I could put the power on.

The resonce was "what are you talking about?never heard of them." very abrupt I thought so I responded by the following.

I sent photos of my rods with casting buttons explaing how they work and the fact that I am not a one off,but infact quite a few anglers use them.

I never got a reply or an appology for their responce first time round.

Do not hold your breath my friend for you will surely suffocate.

Frank

 

Know what you mean.

 

Wonder if they will publish anything being as I did make sure that I attached the link to this site and the other debate about the rig. As you say Keith, Probably not :roll:

Incidentally the reply did state that he thought that the Rubber would still move enough to lose the lead

 

As for casting buttons I know such high profile anglers as Tim Paisley have mentioned there use in the past (in Big Carp, Big Fish Summer chapter), because he has deterioration of a finger from casting heavy spods.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am sure that a forum such as this is like a thorn in the side for some Carp magazines and sponsoring companies. I would image to see a free and flourishing website discussing complex rigs, baits and methods and providing a critique of some articles without a nod to a tackle manufacturer is uncomfortable at least.

 

There must be some frustration when they see members receiving free and in depth information without having to cough up the £3-£4. Even worse when there is criticism of articles from anglers who have no commercial interest but take an altruistic view to their sharing of knowledge.

 

I know that Carp.com is a commercial site but at least the information and discussions are free. I am sure I take more away from this and other sites than from the mags.

So why can't I stop buying one or two a month.......I must just like the shiny paper, the great pictures and the lovely bits of tackle ads.. that I lust after

:oops:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nick when I contacted an extreemely succesfull magazine last year I got a responce I wasn't expecting.

They ran an artical about spoding,and said the only way you can do it without dammage to fingers is gloves or stalls.

I pointed out they had forgoten to mention casting buttons etc, as these were my favorate due to arthritis and I could put the power on.

The resonce was "what are you talking about?never heard of them." very abrupt I thought so I responded by the following.

I sent photos of my rods with casting buttons explaing how they work and the fact that I am not a one off,but infact quite a few anglers use them.

I never got a reply or an appology for their responce first time round.

Do not hold your breath my friend for you will surely suffocate.

Frank

 

 

Know what you mean.

 

Wonder if they will publish anything being as I did make sure that I attached the link to this site and the other debate about the rig. As you say Keith, Probably not :roll:

Incidentally the reply did state that he thought that the Rubber would still move enough to lose the lead

 

As for casting buttons I know such high profile anglers as Tim Paisley have mentioned there use in the past (in Big Carp, Big Fish Summer chapter), because he has deterioration of a finger from casting heavy spods.

Rather strange that considering the magazine Im refering too. :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nick when I contacted an extreemely succesfull magazine last year I got a responce I wasn't expecting.

They ran an artical about spoding,and said the only way you can do it without dammage to fingers is gloves or stalls.

I pointed out they had forgoten to mention casting buttons etc, as these were my favorate due to arthritis and I could put the power on.

The resonce was "what are you talking about?never heard of them." very abrupt I thought so I responded by the following.

I sent photos of my rods with casting buttons explaing how they work and the fact that I am not a one off,but infact quite a few anglers use them.

I never got a reply or an appology for their responce first time round.

Do not hold your breath my friend for you will surely suffocate.

Frank

 

 

Know what you mean.

 

Wonder if they will publish anything being as I did make sure that I attached the link to this site and the other debate about the rig. As you say Keith, Probably not :roll:

Incidentally the reply did state that he thought that the Rubber would still move enough to lose the lead

 

As for casting buttons I know such high profile anglers as Tim Paisley have mentioned there use in the past (in Big Carp, Big Fish Summer chapter), because he has deterioration of a finger from casting heavy spods.

Rather strange that considering the magazine Im refering too. :wink:

 

:lol::lol::lol:

...and I think my bait dropper problems are over. No, not quite. I've still got the gradual disintergration of my right index finger to contend with and I'm going to have to look at the casting buttons that are used on some of the tournament casters to get round this difficulty

 

Now I know that some reels have a button to pull the spool/bail arm assembly into the correct position for casting, but as far as I'm aware the Actual casting buttons are used to grip the line against the rod, and I know that Breakaway Tackle sell them.

 

I have had another e-mail back from Richard Stewart after I queried his decision not to let me post his reply, and again I will respect his decision not to post that as well, but I will post my return to him

 

I have no problems with Lead clips if used in the right situation, its just that for most of my Fishing I choose to use Running Leads, because I want to be different from the majority on my lakes. More "instant" indication, which may remove the chance of a lost fish. To me, The Road Lake being such a "hard" water for the reasons mentioned the Running Lead set-ups will provide better indication and also with a leader, safer should there be any breakage.

 

 

As for Leaders,again in the right situations I will use them. As I have always said my concern is with the use of a Semi-Fixed Leadcore set-up, that in the event of a snap-off will be trailing. Especially as the water is so weedy and has such bars I would be extremely concerned about the risks, even with 20lb line of whatever brand. The possibility of a breakage in the fight from a fish running along the bars or from snagging up in weed is still there, although reduced with a heavy line. I have from experience lost a fish with 18lb Sensor Line (and that breaks higher than its Stated Strain) that has charged along a bar at Suffolk Water park that was attached to Leadcore and a Running Lead. If I had been using a different leader it is a possibility that the line was not trailing so low in the water, although the breakage did happen above the leader, but may have been down to the leadcore cutting into the bar, or even holding the line down in the water.

That incident and the other previously mentioned is what started me playing around with Leadcore to experiment with its safety.

So any Leadcore set-up that does not instantly release is not safe, and still in my opinion the safest set-up that will release is a Helicopter set-up. Any Semi-Fixed or Running Lead set-up in the event of a breakage will be trailing Leadcore

 

I still do not accept that Leadcore used in the situation it has been in this case is at all safe.

In addition to that I have read and re-read the article, although Dan says he is using X-line he does not state the Breaking Strain. This means that someone may copy the rig and use a line far below that which is safe, so I still feel that the rig is not safe as it is published.

 

As for trying to be differing in mechanics, the fact that the Lead is attached to the link, really makes no difference. A door is attached to a car, not the car to the door, the end result as I'm sure you will agree is that the door opens and closes so you can get into the car. The two are attached. In this case lead and link are attached to each other, so it does not really mean that there is any mechanical effect. It just means that in theory the fish instantly hits the weight of the lead.

I do agree though that since the bands are fragile that there should be no problems with release.

We then return to the Lead clips, now I know again from experience that Lead clips, even if rubber only slightly pushed on can on occasions jam up, because weed pieces can hold the rubber in place, that millimetre movement required can be prevented.

 

Again we do agree that the issue of Leadcore is far reaching, far beyond our individual capabilities.

However I'm still of the opinion that the rig as it was published is not safe, and should not have been published

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

in all honesty, most of the articles printed are a hidden advert...

 

For example, This months Total Carp mag is so contradictory it is stupid...

 

You have Jim Shelley saying baits must be big and bright, with free offerings catapulted in around hook baits...

 

You then have Ian Chillcott saying that bait colour is nothing, and that size and smell is most important, never, ever fish a small bait as they can be easily ejected...

 

You then have Dave Lane saying small baits with a bright piece of fake corn are the only way to go...

 

Then some other chap calling for tiny baits with lots of offerings scattered around. With COlin Davidson saying that tiny hookbaits fished only with a PVA bag of oil/liquid attractant is THE only way to go, and not to fish any free offerings at all!!!

 

Each article clearly states which companies each angler is sponsored by and the fact that their whole article is based around the companies latest GIMICK (to advertise it) while they at the same time slag off every other approach is just a joke!!!!

 

 

Leadcore, why, if you want a bait pinned just use a back-lead!

 

GOod luck to you for complaining, I can't stand all these puppets (anglers) dancing to whatever jig their sponsors want them to....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"Now I know that some reels have a button to pull the spool/bail arm assembly into the correct position for casting, but as far as I'm aware the Actual casting buttons are used to grip the line against the rod, and I know that Breakaway Tackle sell them."

 

Nick you are quite correct breakaway sell them amoungs't others,mine are actualy moulded as part of the reel seat on my big rods[usa/japan]

Most work by holding the line almost like a mini finger,and instead of you releasing line of your own finger,you release the button with exactly the same finger movement,so your casting is the same as normal.

 

I digress, the point I was making was that the person who replyed to me tried to make out I was some sort of fool, BECAUSE HE WAS IGNORANT of the facts, even if I was a fool he should have been polite :wink: .

 

Thats my point a lot of magazines are run editored by self appointed experts, and in life I have found that only 1 in 10 of these knows anything from his own experience,the rest from others.

 

I can understand writers stating their prefered means of doing things,I can not understand them stating it is the only way.

I have my ways of fishing,they are succesfull for me, that does not mean they are perfect for everyone everywhere.

It should be someone job to proof read these articals and make sure they are factualy correct and safe practices.

 

One final thing for you to consider, some of the editors /owners have far more clowt then any of us realise.

As you know for some time now I have been writing a piece about the Carp it nature and nurture, this I was doing in the hope of sheading some light on questions asked by a lot of people.

In the proccess of doing so I have been in contact with some of the leading experts in the field of fish biology and genetics from arround the world.

One of these is in Europe and was being very helpfull, late last year he stopped replying, after a few emails I got a reply saying he had not forgoten and would reply when he had more time.

I found this strange to say the least, untill I discovered that someone else writing a book on carp in the uk had notified him that what I was writing would never see the light of day :twisted: and I was just wasting his time :evil:

To me it makes no difference as I have plenty of other contacts, it just inforces my distrust of human nature.

I will stick to trying to help/windup people on here :D and leave the magazines alone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this thread highlights the difference between magazines and forums. Once an article is written in a magazine the writer can ignore any comments about it and there is little chance of any group of anglers being able to discuss his points openly and publicly with him personally. On a forum, any post is open for discussion, disection and even ridicule so even when read by an angler in isolation to anyone else he is also aware of other angler's views.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well said Keith your very right.

Stritly speaking you should be able to discuss articals openly by mail etc,however the magazine editors can vet any letters comming in,then publish selected items..

Therefore the articals are as you said not discussed openly and in public.

frank

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thats the problem with writing for and to magazines or even making a comment querying anything, the watering down or plain editing of any article or reply.

 

I remember an editor saying that with some "writers" the article had to be re-written almost from top to bottom as it was illegible, incorrect grammar, spelling mistakes and almost unreadable. The named exceptions were Jim Gibbinson and Chris Yates. Rod Hutchinson freely admits that he has problems with his wording and writing, he is not a natural writer, but a angler attempting to write.

 

 

I have sent off letters in the past about Fish Thefts from a Suffolk water and where they were going and which water they were moved to.

The letter was "watered" down a bit when it was published, albeit with most of the facts.

Then a few weeks later Dippy was caught from Snake Pit (admittedly that fish was a bit of a gypsy), and another water in the area suddenly had an influx of Big fish.

I know about some of it being toned down is obviously down to Libel, but the fact that Dippy was caught from another water shows that maybe was I was saying was not all Libellous.

 

How many "named" anglers do come on to forums and are willing to discuss things openly without being hidden behind a misleading username?

There are a couple of Big exceptions to this as with everything, but most are quite happy to ignore the most available information exchange that are the forums, and admit that although they look in on the forums hardly post. And that is something that a couple of magazine editors have written in their leading comments.

 

 

Now I know that I do sometimes post information that I have learnt from others, but to me I have to say where or who I learnt it from, even if that means saying "I read it in H's book blah blah blah".

As for rudeness I find that unacceptable (even my own at times :oops::? ), especially when you have taken the trouble to comment, or make a point.

 

The fact that so many different Big Name Anglers all catch fish from different waters, using their own style, mean that at some point all or most tactics work, therefore they all work in correct application at any given time. All are right, yet at many times they may well be wrong :?:shock::roll::wink::lol:

 

I have received another e-mail in reply, with the understanding that I am opposed to the use of Leadcore in weedy waters, and the Leadclip and Leadcore use.

 

Richard Stewart is also going to try to see if he can get a response from "Top Anglers"

 

As I said earlier in the thread, I would like to post the whole of his replies so that my own comments are not biased, but due to the disclaimer I have to use my wording rather than the quoted wording.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am afraid that it all comes down to exactly the same reasons:-

Q1. Why do named anglers write articles for magazines which include unnecessary items of tackle?

Q2. Why don't named anglers come onto the forums and tell us what they really use tackle-wise?

 

A1 & 2. Because they are paid to promote specific tackle (and as much as possible) and if their sponsors were to see that they weren't promoting their items they would lose their sponsorship.

 

The truth of the matter is that what you read in magzines ain't necessarily what is being used by the author.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...