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salokcinnodrog

Advanced Carp Fishing

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Hi Jim

Whilst i can't argue with that statement I would just say that some rigs are much safer than others and some rigs are much more prone to being made unsafe by unthinking anglers.

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Whilst posting the above comment I was also scanning through the Feb issue of Carpworld. Martin Ford and I have crossed swords in the past but this time I would like to openly congratulate him on his "leader". It is superbly written and, to my mind, is how an editor should oversee the magazine content. It is also refreshing to see that both Joe Jarman and Mike Kavanagh share the same thoughts as me in that lead core has been found to be dangerous and has been found to cause damage to fish and should now be banned. It's not needed and is simply a fashion item.

I'm sure Joe won't mind me quoting a short piece of his letter which I found very interesting.

"One of the most common reasons I get quoted for use of leadcore is, and I quote "It follows the contours of the lakebed, pond, pit or whatever."

Cobblers! It just will not do that as it is not heavy enough and will only lie flat to the bottom given the right conditions."

I think that says everything that I have been thinking for the last 3 years. I will not allow leadcore on my lake under any circumstances.

Keith

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My latest e-mail rejoinder:

I think the Leadcore issue really needs to be explored, and the results put for all to see. Not just with one brand of Leadcore either, as different weaves from different manufacturers will have different tolerances. . The experiments need to be done with Semi-Fixed, Running and Helicopter/Rotary Set-ups to prove or disprove the safety of any set-up. They must also include the possibility of kinks holding beads in place and the abrasiveness of the Leadcore leader.

Oh heck I feel another set of tests coming up on my local lake again

 

I know why I'm opposed to its use in any water with weed or any snags, and have seen fish trailing Leadcore rigs landed where Leadclips have not released the lead, either due to incorrect use of the Lead Clip or because it has jammed with weed or clay. I have even seen fish landed trailing Leadcore on fairly clear lakes. Even if the Lead is able to ejected, then the fact that the trailing Leadcore adds weight, may prevent the line from getting slack enough for the Hook to be removed by the Carp. I'm certain that the Carp can eject an "unweighted" hook from watching and also writing (from Ken Townleys chapter in Tim Paisley's Big Carp).

 

I hope that from a host of Top Anglers from whatever camp or background that any "interview" can be published as a before and after any tests that are done with Leadcore. So maybe do they think that Leadcore is safe? Then have any test results and then the same question afterwards, or did the results change the mind.

 

I feel that just because another magazine says something that may be controversial or risky, there is not any need for ACF to say the same thing. I hope the responsibility is there for all magazines to be publicising safety first and Safe Fishing, and that ACF can be the first to start or continue this responsible "behaviour".

 

I really appreciate you taking the time to address and reply to my concerns as you obviously understand that I am just concerned for the welfare of the fish we strive to catch.

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Well said sir.

 

I myself had a gut feeling about leadcore when I first saw it and am pleased to say I have never used it. In my opinion an outright ban is the only way to deal with this menace. I would like to see just one top name Tackle company condem the stuff and withdraw it from sale. A refund on any left unused in peoples tackle boxes would also speed up it's demise. And give the companys reputation a huge boost. Also more than that it will raise their profile in a posative way. You never know other companys may feel that they can follow suit with less egg on their faces.

 

Oops I feel like I may be about to climb up on the business ethics soapbox. Think I had best stop now before I dig a big hole for myself.

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lets ban fishing /too be completely SAFE :?.like only fish for them if we need them for food...the hunter/only takes wot you needs :wink:

uncle jim

KIR

leadcore is safe as long as its used correctly :wink:

imagine a hook that puts a hole in its gob and can tare it,diss figure,deform,loose feeling in its gob etc etc

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Sorry Jim, I don't want to start arguing with you but my target with my lake is to ensure that the "average" angler (whoever that is) has the chance to fish for quality carp in good condition. My experiences and findings have lead me to discover that leadcore is the main area of rigs which can be and often is mis-used and used unnecessarily, resulting in far too many injuries to the carp. Yes I agree with you that hooks can cause damage to the inside of mouths but normally these injuries can be relatively minor and heal well if the fish are fit and healthy. A carp which is tethered on a poor leadcore rig can end up not having the chance to heal because it's dead. As I said before I have been forced to remove one large carp and to kill another because of leadcore and I'm not prepared to do that with any others.

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sorry whos arguing/not me.fighting the leadcores corner :wink:

so wot your saying is a carp tethered up on leadcore is dead but a carp tethered up on mono can survive,but surely if there tethered thats it DEAD,unless hes a lucky carp.

sorry i disagree about the hook thing,as its gotta tare/rip the hook out to get off leaving it deformed or parrot mouthed where it cant feed properly.

so line is safer than leadcore :roll:

remember its hooked up and can be dragging anything behind it so line/leadcore,tubing can all get tethered.

uncle jim

KIR

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"One of the most common reasons I get quoted for use of leadcore is, and I quote "It follows the contours of the lakebed, pond, pit or whatever."

Cobblers! It just will not do that as it is not heavy enough and will only lie flat to the bottom given the right conditions."

I think that says everything that I have been thinking for the last 3 years. I will not allow leadcore on my lake under any circumstances.

Keith

Keith I to will not allow leadcore near my waters,and they are reserved for friends I know will look after my fish.

I think when you own fish and see then often it gives you a different perspective on safety,as you see the bad mouths etc.

As for leadcore hugging the bottom,I think a lot of leadcore is to stiff to acheave that.

The softer and heavyer the line/leader the more likely it is of doing this.

Frank

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If the main concern is about fish becoming tethered, why all the hysteria about leadcore? This can happen if the line breaks above any kind of leader or simply if the mainline breaks for some reason. This is why fisheries (including my own syndicate) are increasingly banning leaders of any description.

 

No thinking angler would use any item of tackle without a good reason and no doubt many anglers think there is a good reason for using leadcore. At the end of the day it's UNTHINKING anglers that cause fish deaths, not the items of tackle themselves.

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sorry whos arguing/not me.fighting the leadcores corner :wink:

so wot your saying is a carp tethered up on leadcore is dead but a carp tethered up on mono can survive,but surely if there tethered thats it DEAD,unless hes a lucky carp.

sorry i disagree about the hook thing,as its gotta tare/rip the hook out to get off leaving it deformed or parrot mouthed where it cant feed properly.

so line is safer than leadcore :roll:

remember its hooked up and can be dragging anything behind it so line/leadcore,tubing can all get tethered.

uncle jim

KIR

Jim in my humble opinion leadcore teathers carp far easyer than line,as it is abrasive.

Just get a 1 metre length of line wrap it round an under water branch with one end loose pull the other end,it just conmes loose.

Do exactly the same with leadcore and 50% of the time it bites into the branch.

I have netted carp one week after being cought on rod and line with leadcore and seen the abrasions on the flanks,just like sawing down the sides of the fish.

No other material used does this.

Leadcore kinks easy and this stops beads/clips etc from sliding of.

I showed this quite clearly on here before in my photo's,after I diliberatly snapped the line by pulling for a break whilst the lead was fast.

The result was the core through the side wall of the braid,nothing could pass this.

In my opinion leadcore should be used for the job it was desighned for,trolling. :wink:

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Sorry I've got to come back with two comments.

 

Jim, the difference is that "line" is necessary in order to go fishing and doesn't kink of have pieces of its core sticking out of the side. Leadcore isn't necessary and in a lot of cases is only used because it is the piece of tackle that happens to be the current "vogue."

 

I agree that unthinking anglers do cause damage to carp by using or misusing items of tackle but (and this is one huge but) the fish that I have referred to earlier in this thread and elsewhere were not the victims of unthinking anglers (that's a totally different list). These carp were tethered to leadcore leaders which had lost the lead but were still tethered by a length of leadcore which had twisted and kinked around a small branch or in the case of the fish that I had to kill, around a clump of weed.

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If the main concern is about fish becoming tethered, why all the hysteria about leadcore? This can happen if the line breaks above any kind of leader or simply if the mainline breaks for some reason. This is why fisheries (including my own syndicate) are increasingly banning leaders of any description.

 

No thinking angler would use any item of tackle without a good reason and no doubt many anglers think there is a good reason for using leadcore. At the end of the day it's UNTHINKING anglers that cause fish deaths, not the items of tackle themselves.

Please go back and read previous threads on leadcore.

Its nothing at all to do with the anglers, unthinking or otherwise.

Leadcore has inherent problems that no other leader material has,eg it is very abbrasive,it kinks badly and even more so after a break,as the core sticks through the side wall.

Because it is abrasive it catches snags easy,unlike smooth lines and leaders.

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If the main concern is about fish becoming tethered, why all the hysteria about leadcore? This can happen if the line breaks above any kind of leader or simply if the mainline breaks for some reason. This is why fisheries (including my own syndicate) are increasingly banning leaders of any description.

 

No thinking angler would use any item of tackle without a good reason and no doubt many anglers think there is a good reason for using leadcore. At the end of the day it's UNTHINKING anglers that cause fish deaths, not the items of tackle themselves.

Please go back and read previous threads on leadcore.

Its nothing at all to do with the anglers, unthinking or otherwise.

Leadcore has inherent problems that no other leader material has,eg it is very abbrasive,it kinks badly and even more so after a break,as the core sticks through the side wall.

Because it is abrasive it catches snags easy,unlike smooth lines and leaders.

 

The Thread "Leader or not" by 666:

http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=32598

 

I think that covers questions from Jim Shelley and Tryzard.

 

The Lead clip issue is one that will continue to go on, misuse, ignorance, either pushing the rubber on too tightly, or not clipping back the Lead clip tag etc. May be a product that in theory is brilliant, makes leads easy to attach, change etc, but at what cost?

 

If a lead is unable to be released or a length of leadcore trailing with its own inherent weight (Moorseys words :wink: ) then it means that there is a weight on the line that may well prevent the hook being ejected.

 

With a trailing length of leadcore and its "digging or sawing" into snags, weeds then the only way the carp can remove the offending item is to rip it free. For that the Carp needs to be able to be swimming at a speed that will RIP the hook free.

 

So that is a risk in itself that is creating possible mouth damage. Then we have the problem of the line being so short and tangled that the Carp cannot get up to speed, that means it is tethered until freed or death.

 

Now I'm not saying in any way that other Leaders or Mainlines won't do that, but we have to reduce the risks as much as possible. With no weight on the line I believe that the Carp is more likely to be able to get rid of the offending hook.

 

Any leader the Lead needs to be able to fall of, either by a running lead and the Run Ring going past the knot or by the Lead clip ejecting the lead (Is a Lead Clip itself enough to catch in a snag and tether?).

 

The main point of this thread is so that the magazines have to publish articles and set-ups that are safe.

 

Regarding my belief that Carp can eject the hook from reading:

 

 

Ken Townley Chapter, Looking in On Carp from Tim Paisley's Big Carp

 

I wondered if it had been lost and then noticed that it was towing line. I could see a small bright yellow boilie hanging from its lip and a length of line, but thankfully no bomb (Fixed Lead Advocated please note).

 

 

Today, he looked much more lively and I was curious to note that the yellow boilie that was his undoing was now lying on the lakebed. The tackle looked to be still lodged in the fish's lip though...

 

Next day he was still there- and so were my baits, along with the yellow one. The tackle was nowhere to be seen and I guess the fish must of got rid of itin a branch or weed

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If the main concern is about fish becoming tethered, why all the hysteria about leadcore? This can happen if the line breaks above any kind of leader or simply if the mainline breaks for some reason. This is why fisheries (including my own syndicate) are increasingly banning leaders of any description.

 

No thinking angler would use any item of tackle without a good reason and no doubt many anglers think there is a good reason for using leadcore. At the end of the day it's UNTHINKING anglers that cause fish deaths, not the items of tackle themselves.

Please go back and read previous threads on leadcore.

Its nothing at all to do with the anglers, unthinking or otherwise.

Leadcore has inherent problems that no other leader material has,eg it is very abbrasive,it kinks badly and even more so after a break,as the core sticks through the side wall.

Because it is abrasive it catches snags easy,unlike smooth lines and leaders.

 

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it but leadcore doesn't go fishing by itself does it?

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That's your opinion and you're entitled to it but leadcore doesn't go fishing by itself does it?

 

No it doesn't but it can certainly be left trailing behind fish by itself.

Frankly I can't see the point of your statement. Most of us are trying to show our experiences where leadcore has caused unnecessary damage. For my own posts, none of them are "opinions" they are simple statements of facts resulting in fish that I have actually found damaged.

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Nick wrote

If a lead is unable to be released or a length of leadcore trailing with its own inherent weight (Moorseys words Wink ) then it means that there is a weight on the line that may well prevent the hook being ejected.

 

Forgive me if I am not keeping up with this thread or have misunderstood but I am always reading and ?experiencing carp using the weight to eject the hook. Can they eject the hook with nothing to pull against?

 

I'm tired so may have got the wrong end of the stick

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Nick wrote

If a lead is unable to be released or a length of leadcore trailing with its own inherent weight (Moorseys words Wink ) then it means that there is a weight on the line that may well prevent the hook being ejected.

 

Forgive me if I am not keeping up with this thread or have misunderstood but I am always reading and ?experiencing carp using the weight to eject the hook. Can they eject the hook with nothing to pull against?

 

I'm tired so may have got the wrong end of the stick

There is a massive difference between a carp using a lead to eject a hook whilst you are trying to hook it,and a carp ejecting a hook that is already embeded in its flesh.

A carp trailing a hook and line starts to form a calus within hours or days depending on water temps,once this accures the hook in effect loosens and is easyerly dislodged in weed,reeds,braches etc.

One trailing a weight or teathered simply keeps driving the hook home and in effect stops the natural calus growing from accuring.

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That's your opinion and you're entitled to it but leadcore doesn't go fishing by itself does it?

 

No it doesn't but it can certainly be left trailing behind fish by itself.

Frankly I can't see the point of your statement. Most of us are trying to show our experiences where leadcore has caused unnecessary damage. For my own posts, none of them are "opinions" they are simple statements of facts resulting in fish that I have actually found damaged.

 

Was I responding to one of your posts then?

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Not directly but my opinion happens to agree with the opinion of Frank and Nick.

 

Moorsey, if you stop being irritated long enough to read my post properly you will see that the "opinion" I'm referring to is the rather strange notion that the use of leadcore has nothing to do with anglers.

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