Jump to content
Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Sign in to follow this  
salokcinnodrog

Advanced Carp Fishing

Recommended Posts

in vogue...well sorry ive been using leadcore for over 15 years in its many forms :wink:

uncle jim

KIR

ps,sorry nick i stick to the thread iam working on,not all these other quotes :roll:

 

I'll forgive being as I'm a freak who can remember almost exactly where the other findings are from, and I'll use 4 or 5 pages open at the same time :wink::roll:

 

Alan,

I know what you mean, and I know that you are not against a product, but against the "idiot factor". Unfortunately the idiot factor make many good products a risk.

The problem is that Leadcore in itself is a product that is so open to misuse, so open to errors.

Jez was it you or Mach3 who landed a fish trailing leadcore at Merrington?

I know Guddler has landed a Leadcore trailer on another water.

Keith has also stated why he has banned its use on his lake, complete with the explanation of having to put a fish down because it had been so badly injured

 

You were a couple of pegs away at SWP when I lost a fish that may well have been left trailing Leadcore. That is from a presentation that I had landed numerous other fish on with no problems, at Suffolk Water Park and from the Reservoir. It is the catalyst that started me thinking about the risks and potential dangers of Leadcore.

I'm not saying in any way am I a quality angler (I'll leave that to Keith again :wink::lol: ), but one who tries to think about the risks and prevent them as much as possible. Whatever I am, a pain in the butt, good guy or whatever, I had an idiot factor "moment" in using such a setup on such a water. The trailing leadcore is a potential risk to fish, the risk of tethering fish, the risk of causing Line trailers.

 

I understand that CarpWorld is now also taking up the Leadcore debate and its effects.

 

This is basically my e-mail to Richard Stewart of ACF as quoted above, but (in bold )

it may well really now get done as more than one magazine may well be on the case.

 

I think the Leadcore issue really needs to be explored, and the results put for all to see. Not just with one brand of Leadcore either, as different weaves from different manufacturers will have different tolerances.

The experiments need to be done with Semi-Fixed, Running and Helicopter/Rotary Set-ups to prove or disprove the safety of any set-up. They must also include the possibility of kinks holding beads in place and the abrasiveness of the Leadcore leader.Oh heck I feel another set of tests coming up on my local lake again

 

 

I hope that from a host of Top Anglers from whatever camp or background that any "interview" can be published as a before and after any tests that are done with Leadcore. So maybe do they think that Leadcore is safe? Then have any test results and then the same question afterwards, or did the results change the mind.

 

Maybe then the end result will be that the fish can swim safe :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was mach3 at merrington however last year we removed 5 fish teathered by leadcore on one of my syndicates. Three of these fish died and on three of the rigs you would of called them safe except the leadcore kinked stopping ejection of the beads etc. The other two were muppet rigs with rear end swivels. I dont care what anybody says it is not a safe product. At least with 12lb line the fish has a chance of breaking it either with a straight pull or by its movements causing the line to fray and part against snags if teathered, with lead core of 50lb that just aint going to happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I know what you mean, and I know that you are not against a product, but against the "idiot factor".

 

 

Thanks Nick, that's exactly my point. Poor angling is always a factor in issues such as this.

 

Clearly, the experiences of yourself and others have resulted in misgivings about the inherent safety of leadcore which I'm not disputing. However, a fish can only trail or become tethered if the line breaks above the joining knot, and this can happen with any type of leader or with no leader at all.

 

This season on my syndicate which, as I've said, bans leaders of all descriptions, the bailiff has released three fish tethered by broken mainline. These instances were almost certainly due to anglers not fishing snaggy areas safely. If leadcore provides an advantage, and I'm not convinced that it does, there must be circumstances where a competent angler can use it in as safe a manner as possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If the main concern is about fish becoming tethered, why all the hysteria about leadcore? This can happen if the line breaks above any kind of leader or simply if the mainline breaks for some reason. This is why fisheries (including my own syndicate) are increasingly banning leaders of any description.

 

No thinking angler would use any item of tackle without a good reason and no doubt many anglers think there is a good reason for using leadcore. At the end of the day it's UNTHINKING anglers that cause fish deaths, not the items of tackle themselves.

Please go back and read previous threads on leadcore.

Its nothing at all to do with the anglers, unthinking or otherwise.

Leadcore has inherent problems that no other leader material has,eg it is very abbrasive,it kinks badly and even more so after a break,as the core sticks through the side wall.

Because it is abrasive it catches snags easy,unlike smooth lines and leaders.

 

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it but leadcore doesn't go fishing by itself does it

Right then where do I start?

quote="levigsp"]

If the main concern is about fish becoming tethered, why all the hysteria about leadcore?

I mearly pointed out that it is not just the tethering,its all the other problem as well.

Next

 

No thinking angler would use any item of tackle without a good reason and no doubt many anglers think there is a good reason for using leadcore. At the end of the day it's UNTHINKING anglers that cause fish deaths, not the items of tackle themselves.

 

I in my answer to this made the following statement"Its nothing at all to do with the anglers, unthinking or otherwise."

You see thinking anglers do use leadcore,because they do not realise the problems it causes.

Unthinking anglers use it because it is in vogue,or they simply follow like sheep.

 

I stand by these thoughts,leadcore is a problem in its own right,it kinks easerly and is abrasive [ the same as me]

 

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it but leadcore doesn't go fishing by itself does it

Wrong :!:

The above were statements of fact not opinions.

My opinion to which I am entitled is: You simply wish an argument. :shock:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Levigsp, I'll simply refer you to the reply I made to Moorsey. Try reading what I actually wrote!

 

On another note, isn't it strange how some people's thoughts and experiences suddenly bcome "fact"!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Levigsp, I'll simply refer you to the reply I made to Moorsey. Try reading what I actually wrote!

 

On another note, isn't it strange how some people's thoughts and experiences suddenly bcome "fact"!

I you now going to refute the FACT that leadcore is abrasive,that its core come through the side wall and that it kinks :lol::lol::lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I know what you mean, and I know that you are not against a product, but against the "idiot factor".

 

 

Thanks Nick, that's exactly my point. Poor angling is always a factor in issues such as this.

 

Clearly, the experiences of yourself and others have resulted in misgivings about the inherent safety of leadcore which I'm not disputing. However, a fish can only trail or become tethered if the line breaks above the joining knot, and this can happen with any type of leader or with no leader at all.

 

This season on my syndicate which, as I've said, bans leaders of all descriptions, the bailiff has released three fish tethered by broken mainline. These instances were almost certainly due to anglers not fishing snaggy areas safely. If leadcore provides an advantage, and I'm not convinced that it does, there must be circumstances where a competent angler can use it in as safe a manner as possible.

 

The main problem you have is that there is at least 1 irresponsible angler fishing to the snags, and that person needs to be found out and shown the risks, Education!

Probably the person who doesn't read the opinions and advice on forums, only the bit on how to locate fish :roll::wink::twisted:

 

I'm now of the opinion that there is no safe way to fish it.

Say for leadcore you are looking at a minimum of 25lb Breaking Strain, and most are of 35-50lb?

 

Then you are going to be fishing with a length of line that is next to impossible to be broken, with just about the exception of "casting shock".

 

 

If you go back to the picture of the set-up that was advocated in ACF, it is a Semi-Fixed set-up, that in the event of a snap up is going to be trailing at the very least a length of leadcore and possibly the lead.

 

Nowhere in the article does it state the line that the angler is using for his fishing, which happened to be 20lb, a line that in most cases is not going to break anyway, so he has an additional knot that may be a potential weakspot. The Road Lake from what I can gather is an extremely weedy and fairly snaggy water with a fair number of gravel bars. Not in my view a safe place for Leadcore

 

Also being as he was putting his rigs in by hand there should be no use for any leader at all?

 

Then even if you have a Helicopter set-up it only takes a small kink to prevent beads from sliding off the leadcore. That kink could be caused by a bad cast, or by a snap-off.

 

 

Now I'm pretty competant, or I think so anyway. Yet I made a mistake in using Leadcore, so if by not thinking I put a fish at risk by using something that is not suitable then I'm as bad as those that do not care. So to make up for my errors I'm trying to put something back and prevent the possibilities of fish being put at risk, education that there is simply no need for Leadcore in fishing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Levigsp, I'll simply refer you to the reply I made to Moorsey. Try reading what I actually wrote!

 

On another note, isn't it strange how some people's thoughts and experiences suddenly bcome "fact"!

I you now going to refute the FACT that leadcore is abrasive,that its core come through the side wall and that it kinks :lol::lol::lol:

 

Not at all, but none of these are factors in fish becoming tethered which was the subject of my post in the first place. No fish will become tethered unless the line breaks whether leadcore is used or not.

 

As I said, try reading what I actually wrote!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Levigsp, I'll simply refer you to the reply I made to Moorsey. Try reading what I actually wrote!

 

On another note, isn't it strange how some people's thoughts and experiences suddenly bcome "fact"!

I you now going to refute the FACT that leadcore is abrasive,that its core come through the side wall and that it kinks :lol::lol::lol:

 

Not at all, but none of these are factors in fish becoming tethered which was the subject of my post in the first place. No fish will become tethered unless the line breaks whether leadcore is used or not.

 

As I said, try reading what I actually wrote!

 

Right let me agree with what you say and then add that without a leader the line is more likely to break at the hook link swivel knot and this would then leave the fish with just the hook link to deal with.

Breakages will happen either during the cast, when a fish makes it to a snag or if the line is cut on mussles etc. I just feel that, as thinking anglers, we should all do our utmost to safeguard the carp. And I used to be so pro-leadcore that I even invented a knot to try and make it safe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nick,

 

Trust me, I wouldn't give a monkey's if leadcore was banned completely as I don't use the stuff.

 

Disregarding the issue of unsafe lead release systems which we all know are unacceptable, my point is that if the main line doesn't break then leadcore is safe. I completely agree that if the main line does break then leadcore is more likely to leave a fish permanently tethered or cause more damage when it tries to shed the hook.

 

What we are talking about here is a product which is rapidly becoming unacceptable because of this risk. However, there are many other risks to fish welfare which we have to assess and ultimately responsibility for this rests with individual anglers and their competence and experience.

 

If we adopt the "Nanny State" approach to angling we'll end up banning the sport.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Levigsp, I'll simply refer you to the reply I made to Moorsey. Try reading what I actually wrote!

 

On another note, isn't it strange how some people's thoughts and experiences suddenly bcome "fact"!

I you now going to refute the FACT that leadcore is abrasive,that its core come through the side wall and that it kinks :lol::lol::lol:

 

Not at all, but none of these are factors in fish becoming tethered which was the subject of my post in the first place. No fish will become tethered unless the line breaks whether leadcore is used or not.

 

As I said, try reading what I actually wrote!

 

Right let me agree with what you say and then add that without a leader the line is more likely to break at the hook link swivel knot and this would then leave the fish with just the hook link to deal with.

Breakages will happen either during the cast, when a fish makes it to a snag or if the line is cut on mussles etc. I just feel that, as thinking anglers, we should all do our utmost to safeguard the carp. And I used to be so pro-leadcore that I even invented a knot to try and make it safe.

 

We are as one! :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so are so many setups,so why single out one thing,when others have caused more deaths.

rich had told me he had recieved an email about leadcore etc :roll: .

education :wink: been doing it for years,but you always have new anglers that have gotta learn and some that couldnt give a damn.

10lb line or 20lb,how the hell is it gonna snap it,so good angling to the bloke for fishing 20lb line for the right situation,mind you i use 20lb line for all my lead fishing,plus i cant remember the last time i cracked off or even lost my gear :shock:

uncle jim

KIR

leadcore all the way :D...pukka in the right hands

 

if your using old leadcore your a tight git :twisted:

 

Edited for swearing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
so are so many setups,so why single out one thing,when others have caused more deaths.

rich had told me he had recieved an email about leadcore etc :roll: .

education :wink: been doing it for years,but you always have new anglers that have gotta learn and some that couldnt give a damn.

10lb line or 20lb,how the hell is it gonna snap it,so good angling to the bloke for fishing 20lb line for the right situation,mind you i use 20lb line for all my lead fishing,plus i cant remember the last time i cracked off or even lost my gear :shock:

uncle jim

KIR

leadcore all the way :D...pukka in the right hands

 

if your using old leadcore your a tight git :twisted:

 

Edited for swearing

 

Have other things cause more deaths than Leadcore from the anglers perspective?

Lead clips, incorrectly used maybe. Yet how often have the magazines attempted to show its correct use? Almost every month, yet still mistakes go on, people not clipping the lead tag or pushing the rubber on too far. Maybe we should ban Leadclips as well :twisted::roll:

 

 

Now Richard Stewart did receive an e-mail which I originally sent in January, either it got lost in the ether, he was unable to get to it, or didn't reply, I'll take the former on manners as everything I have sent since I have received a reply back. The original e-mail is on display on this thread for all to see, but I'll repost it at the bottom of this post.

 

I queried the Leadcore, the use of the Leadclip, the bands and the trailing line in the event of a snap-off

The article showed a Leadcore set-up that is not safe, it received no explanation as to what line he was using. Also it did not state in the article that baits were being placed by hand; both of those little gems came in the e-mail reply back.

Now if someone copied the set-up from the magazine for his own fishing that person could well decide to use 8lb mainline. Try casting that, and a crack-off could be the result. On a take possibly the bands may break or roll up, but possibly not.

Keith also pointed out that the "lighter tagged end" may also jam the leadclip rubber in place.

 

I've got no problems with using of 20lb line in the right situation, but there is no need for the leadcore, especially bearing in mind that apparently he was placing the rigs in the water close to the bank. In this situation it is easy enough to get a slack line with either a semi-fixed, running lead or even a small flying back lead, so this Leadcore set-up was not in my view needed.

 

 

 

I am writing to you with some concern over a set-up published in this months Advanced Carp Fishing on page92, used by Dan Kilgour.

 

 

This is a (semi) fixed Leadcore rig where the Lead is held in place with bait bands, alongside the Hooklink.

 

To me this is a worrying rig in that in the event of a snap off the lead may or may not release. The Bands may simply hold the lead in place, so that the Lead Clip cannot release even though the Lead clip has been trimmed down.

 

Even in the event of the lead releasing, any break off above the Leadcore and the fish will be trailing a rig, plus the length of Leadcore. I'm sure that you are aware this can or could lead to a snagged fish and a slow death. The water does not need to be snaggy for the Leadcore to snag. I have seen Leadcore and mainline tangled in weed, luckily with NO fish attached, but it does not take much for any fish to be snagged when Leadcore is used.

 

 

In these days of Carp Welfare, this does not look like a Safe rig, and does not show any concern over Fish Capture, showing Fish first, and catch at all costs.

 

To my mind the only safe arrangement where leadcore is used is where the rig can come away from the leadcore as in a Helicopter set-up where the rig is free to slide away.

 

I look forward to your response to this comment

And the follow up:

Dear Sir

 

I am writing too you regarding a previous e-mail I sent on 23rd January, (quoted below) regarding a rig you published in the issue of February 2009.

 

I have received no reply to the original e-mail, and am hoping that this is an oversight rather than intentional.

 

The rig and letter in question has been debated quite strongly on a couple of Carp Fishing forums, Carp.forum, and carp.com. In fact on both forums, even Richard Cash Farnan and Keith Moors have commented on the rig and its publication.

I will give you the weblinks for the 2 forum pages:

 

http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=38886

 

 

http://www.carpforum.co.uk/Shared/Messages.asp?TopicID=187059

 

 

I hope that these links show you that there is a lot of feeling involved, and also that to a few people that people are losing faith in the magazines unless they can be bothered to reply and held accountable for practices that may put fish at risk

 

Unlike many of the "Faceless" people who use them I am quite willing to stand up for myself and say if I believe something is not right or safe, especially when Fish Care is such an important part of fishing.

 

 

With something as debatable as Leadcore, already receiving publicity for the wrong reasons, angling needs to be seen to be doing something to prevent its misuse, not advertising it as the answer to every problem, and the Magazines are at the forefront of this.

 

 

Please can you give this your attention and I once again look forward to your reply

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I USE LEADCORE AND LOVE IT :lol: couldnt give a hoot if someones opinion differs to mine ...i'm a novice to carp fishing along side the likes of jim shelley however i have had the intelligence to source the correct way of using it.

And i have not had any issues with it , yet again people forcing opinions on others as to what to use and the way to use it .

It is for us anglers with more experience than new comers to help them setup there end tackle and the like if they ask .

I'm sure any angler would get great satisfaction knowing that they have helped someone with seting up there desired end tackle and the like correctly.

But then again going from past posts some people seem more interested in picking fault on spelling and not actually reading the thread in the first place .

 

OFF THE SOAP BOX NOW

 

Each to there own really has to what we use but to force an opinion isnt the way to do it no matter how passionate we feel about it .

 

lets keep derogatory remarks to ourselves as a punch often offends :lol::lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We will see more and more fisheries banning the use of leadcore and other leaders due to the fact they have to take into account the people who dont know and dont find out how to use the stuff in a reasonably safe way. Now i dont think it's a safe material and as i've stated before when you remove dead fish from snags teathered on leadcore you begin to see the failings of the material. Once it has kinked and it is very prone to that rig components can very easily not eject from the leadcore and a teathered fish will not break 45/50lb core. If i were to use the dreaded stuff again (not that i ever will) it would be with a barbless hook so that the carp has at least a chance of shedding the rig but even then the weight of the stuff even if the lead has ejected is often enough to keep the hook in place. I agree that this has become a very emotive subject but once you see the damage that it causes you are left with only one opinion on the stuff. I have stated before that last year 5 fish were removed from snags on one of my waters teathed by leadcore rigs, three of those fish were dead and two survived. Not one fish was found teathered on any other material now that tells me something. Leadcore is now banned on that water and to me that rule is the best one to have come in for years.

Now i know that a lot of anglers such as Jim Shelly have great confidence that they are fishing the material in a safe and responsible manor and they probably are using it in the safest way possible. However if i was a lake owner/ syndicate leader i would have to look at the way in which some others use the stuff and that would make my mind up for me.

There are ways of fishing without leadcore, we managed before the stuff started to come into vogue and we could manage again if it goes out of fashion.

I feel that threads such as this one get heated due to the strong feelings both sides have on the matter but having a personal pop at each other isnt the way to go. I'm sure Nick will back me up when i say that we had strongly opposing views on this subject for a long time but we never fell out over it. I hope that in some small way mine and others views put over without spite and malice got him to start looking and thinking about what we were trying to say and to take another look at his own fishing. Once he did that he changed his opinion but if he hadn't we would still respect each others views and not get into personal attacks on each other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I feel that threads such as this one get heated due to the strong feelings both sides have on the matter but having a personal pop at each other isnt the way to go. I'm sure Nick will back me up when i say that we had strongly opposing views on this subject for a long time but we never fell out over it. I hope that in some small way mine and others views put over without spite and malice got him to start looking and thinking about what we were trying to say and to take another look at his own fishing. Once he did that he changed his opinion but if he hadn't we would still respect each others views and not get into personal attacks on each other.

 

I couldn't agree more. It's perfectly possible to express an opinion without being opinionated and to disagree without being disagreeable.

 

In my opinion (here we go again :) ) a lot of this starts because people sometimes don't actually read what others are saying (and I can be as guilty as anyone else).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i also agree regards owning a lake , i know if i was fortunate to own my own lake i too would be sanctioning my own rules as to what is plausable to fish with ,and that is how the vast majority of owners view it .

It wasnt so long ago that lead shot was banned but yet that took years to implement and im sure there is still the old school anglers out there that bought loads of the stuff before it was banned and still use it to this day .

Barbed or Barbless the list is endless as to what each of us regard as unsafe but there will always be a minority that will go against the grain and do it there way :roll: regardless of the rules on there local lake

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...