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Best rig for carp that mouth and drop baits immediately?


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One question.....   How do you know that the fish are picking up your hookbait and dropping it immediately?

And thats why i feel its best to keep it simple.   My train of thought is to try and keep your end tackle and your hooklength as inconspicuous as possible. The more things you add to that, the less

What carp doesn't hoover it up and blow it back out?

 

In every underwater video I've seen, carp suck up a handful of sludge, silt, debris, blow it back out, then pick the one piece they wanted out of the pile, and suck it back in.

 

If they are not retaking the bait, I'd look very carefully at anything that could be causing them to drop it and move on.

 

Pardon me if I'm wrong, but I thought the whole point of the hair rig was to catch them as they blew the bait back out? If your not, it seems something is not right.

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Went stalking today and had endless carp pick the hook bait up and blow it back out again. i could of done someting about it, but they were feeding confidently and not spooking to much, no idea why though. nailed about 8 in the end nothing that big but a fun day out. didn't really plan on stalking but when the opurtunity comes along you have to take it. i was about a foot from the bank in 8 inches of water lol. the best rig i like the look of is the multi rig, but with shrink tubing on the shank of the hook. looks like it will nail them everytime!

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The most effecient rig i've found for a pop up is the 360. I think a bottom bait rig would vary more depending on the lake bed.

 

It is definitely one of the best pop-up rigs going, but my Turf pop-up rig which is a very similar setup is awesome- only ever had 2 runs that didnt end up as fish on the mat out of over 100 carp in a year from the Turf pool alone :P, ive now been using that rig 3 years 8)

It is my choice for pop-ups nearly 90% of the time no matter where im fishing as i have so much confidence with it :P

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What carp doesn't hoover it up and blow it back out?

 

In every underwater video I've seen, carp suck up a handful of sludge, silt, debris, blow it back out, then pick the one piece they wanted out of the pile, and suck it back in.

 

If they are not retaking the bait, I'd look very carefully at anything that could be causing them to drop it and move on.

 

Pardon me if I'm wrong, but I thought the whole point of the hair rig was to catch them as they blew the bait back out? If your not, it seems something is not right.

I have only ever watched one short video but I know your statement is incorrect.

I have watched countless carp feed in clear water to realize that not all carp are suckers.

I have seen carp, especially big carp swim into an area, home in on the food trail, and pick up a single boilie as soft as you like.

I have also watched a big carp pick over a kilo of boilies up and bully every other fish out of the way, yet when it picked up the only one with a hook it dropped it instantly.

There is no denying that most carp are suckers but not all, and for those that are not you definitely need a rig that instantly hooks.

The most effecient rig i've found for a pop up is the 360. I think a bottom bait rig would vary more depending on the lake bed.

An absolutely brilliant rig that has caught so many big carp it's almost unbelievable.

Having said that depending on the bottom the Chod or the short hooklink on a hinged stiff rig [given they are both the same] is an absolute belter.

For bottom baits its got to be anything with a lot of movement in the hooklink but the bait on a D.

One of the best I know of is a simple D rig, with a very soft braided hooklink, either direct to swivel or normally to a stiffish boom [combi].

Frank

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You guys make me laugh :lol:

 

Lets be honest, the whole thread is based on a hypothetical question cos no one will know with 100% certainty that the fish you are targetting in your particular venue pick up and drop your bait immediately. The only way to know this is to don scuba gear and watch the fish at length for a considerable time to gauge your findings.

 

So what is the answer?

 

Pulling out stock photos of rigs with rings here, loops there, swivels on that bit is not the way to go, you are merely confusing the issue and making things way more complicated than it actually is.

 

I will tell you my to answer the question of the thread and i will gladly hear your views if you think im talking rubbish..... Get the fish on a good bait that they have confidence in eating and a simple knotless knot will out catch anything that you have suggested here.

 

But hey, thats just my opinion :wink:

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As there are many factors involved in this, that is why no rig will hook 100% of the fish!

 

And thats why i feel its best to keep it simple.

 

My train of thought is to try and keep your end tackle and your hooklength as inconspicuous as possible. The more things you add to that, the less fish you are going to catch. I think its simple and so obvious.

 

Ive said it before and i will continue to say it..... you will find that these "super duper" rigs may have been designed for a certain scenario, in a certain lake for a certain fish. No wonder that the newcomer to carp angling can get there head in a mess worrying about something so easy as the last 9 inches of there end tackle. I blame the comics for that.

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You guys make me laugh :lol:

 

Lets be honest, the whole thread is based on a hypothetical question cos no one will know with 100% certainty that the fish you are targetting in your particular venue pick up and drop your bait immediately. The only way to know this is to don scuba gear and watch the fish at length for a considerable time to gauge your findings.

 

So what is the answer?

 

Pulling out stock photos of rigs with rings here, loops there, swivels on that bit is not the way to go, you are merely confusing the issue and making things way more complicated than it actually is.

 

I will tell you my to answer the question of the thread and i will gladly hear your views if you think im talking rubbish..... Get the fish on a good bait that they have confidence in eating and a simple knotless knot will out catch anything that you have suggested here.

 

But hey, thats just my opinion :wink:

 

An opinion based on a lot of experience Tony and I was hoping someone would say something along those lines.

 

It is possible, however, to watch fish feed however and observe them without donning scuba gear. This you know very well I am sure, as you will have watched them feeding in your time, particularly when in gravel pits which are crystal clear.

 

I did not ignore your question to be peverse, I felt a range of opinions (without bias/input from a specific scenario) would encourage people to think about the question and throw up different opinions which could then be discussed/considered by everybody.

 

Also different carp in the same lake do not always feed in the same manner, and when targetting a specific big fish in a low stock water this is when the question comes into its own, in my personal view.

 

I do not think it is confusing the issue - there are some very good anglers who read through this forum and they may not have bothered to contribute up to this point, precisely because the question was quite vague.

 

Nobody mentioned the Scorpion rig for example. There are others rigs in a similar vein. But it is interesting to see the rigs most people would use and why they have found success with them.

 

I can see the fish feeding where I tend to go fishing, I trust this answers your question. The scenarios vary from a very muddy bottom through to a hard bottom and therefore what works in one place may not be effective in another, as you rightly point out. :D

 

So presuming this is a gravel pit and you have seen them pick up and drop your bait in a second many times, watched one carp push another carp off your hookbait just before they are about to take it, observed them clear the area and leave your hookbait untouched...what would you do then? :wink:

 

If it was a silty, turbid water and you just kept getting dropped bites, bleeps and little 1 inch movements on the bobbin - but you knew the only fish in the place where carp and it was very pressured - what rig would you opt for? :wink:

 

Nobody does the same thing so its just interesting to see peoples ideas and views, thats all. :)

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You guys make me laugh :lol:

 

Lets be honest, the whole thread is based on a hypothetical question cos no one will know with 100% certainty that the fish you are targetting in your particular venue pick up and drop your bait immediately. The only way to know this is to don scuba gear and watch the fish at length for a considerable time to gauge your findings.

 

So what is the answer?

 

Pulling out stock photos of rigs with rings here, loops there, swivels on that bit is not the way to go, you are merely confusing the issue and making things way more complicated than it actually is.

 

I will tell you my to answer the question of the thread and i will gladly hear your views if you think im talking rubbish..... Get the fish on a good bait that they have confidence in eating and a simple knotless knot will out catch anything that you have suggested here.

 

But hey, thats just my opinion :wink:

Tony you are right in what you say but!

The question was about fish that pickup and drop strait away and that is all.

And you should allow the person asking to do so without jumping down their throat and you should also allow other forum users to answer the question again without ridicule.

After all most of the questions on here are hypothetical

I have watched fish do this as said.

I have tried various things to catch said fish and given my verdict, a truthful one.

If I had fished for ten years for may target fish with a simple knotless knot I probably would have not caught it.

If the question was what rig will catch the most fish, I would have said as simple a hair rig as possible., but that was not the question.

Just my opinion.

Frank

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Telefisherone here, all this rocket science is interesting but for me simplicity is success, i use good old fashioned drennan super specialists and ligne aliner set up for 85 per cent with the trusty old knotless knot for every thing else; i watch carp feeding a lot and from my experience they do differ in different waters, they aint called "Lake foxes" for nowt, a water i fish i free line in the margins and you can definently feel what the wisest fish are upto nosing the bait; and yep on a couple of occassions ive had the mono slice thru digits on a slamming take, mr carps payback :lol:

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It is possible, however, to watch fish feed however and observe them without donning scuba gear. This you know very well I am sure, as you will have watched them feeding in your time, particularly when in gravel pits which are crystal clear.

 

If you have got the luxury of seeing fish feed in crystal clear water then you have definitely got a better understanding of how to catch them certain fish on that certain area. But lets be honest, if you are fishing at range of anything more than marginal yards, then its gonna be difficult, if not impossible to see exactly what they are getting away with. Personally i have seen fish feed and caught fish while watching them tear up my marginal baited spot, but unfortunately for me the water wasn’t crystal clear and all I saw was shadows ghosting in, upending to feed then ghost out again.

 

But luckily for me my current venue which is weed infested and gin clear hopefully will give me the opportunity to see fish feed in close quarters some time this summer, but like I said, I still don’t believe that you can see exactly whats going on unless you are fishing very close in.

 

So presuming this is a gravel pit and you have seen them pick up and drop your bait in a second many times, watched one carp push another carp off your hookbait just before they are about to take it, observed them clear the area and leave your hookbait untouched...what would you do then? :wink:

 

If it was a silty, turbid water and you just kept getting dropped bites, bleeps and little 1 inch movements on the bobbin - but you knew the only fish in the place where carp and it was very pressured - what rig would you opt for? :wink:

 

Once again I presume you are talking about close in, margin fishing here cos like I said before, anything further out than that you would have real difficulty seeing what was happening anyway. In the case of the gravel bottomed lake though I would make my end tackle as subtle as possible And make my bait act as natural as the freebies by counterbalancing it. Also shortening the hooklink could help along with lengthening the hair to make sure you have a much greater degree of separation between the hook and bait.

 

To be honest, on the silty venue where even close in you are not gonna see much at all, I would experiment and try the same as above, but cos you cant see the carps reaction to anything, then i feel its gonna be trial and error.

 

Either way, I feel pulling out a rig that’s all whistles and bells rings here and swivels there is just gonna hinder your chances of a take. I wouldn’t be at all confident of doing something l;ike that. But thats just my opinion.

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Tony you are right in what you say but!

The question was about fish that pickup and drop strait away and that is all.

And you should allow the person asking to do so without jumping down their throat and you should also allow other forum users to answer the question again without ridicule.

After all most of the questions on here are hypothetical

I have watched fish do this as said.

I have tried various things to catch said fish and given my verdict, a truthful one.

If I had fished for ten years for may target fish with a simple knotless knot I probably would have not caught it.

If the question was what rig will catch the most fish, I would have said as simple a hair rig as possible., but that was not the question.

Just my opinion.

Frank

 

Frank, if you think i spoke out of turn then please (and everyone else for that matter) accept my apologies. It wasnt meant has you obviously read it. I was merely trying to add to an extremely interesting subject with my points of view :D

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So presuming this is a gravel pit and you have seen them pick up and drop your bait in a second many times, watched one carp push another carp off your hookbait just before they are about to take it, observed them clear the area and leave your hookbait untouched...what would you do then? :wink:

 

If it was a silty, turbid water and you just kept getting dropped bites, bleeps and little 1 inch movements on the bobbin - but you knew the only fish in the place where carp and it was very pressured - what rig would you opt for? :wink:

 

Once again I presume you are talking about close in, margin fishing here cos like I said before, anything further out than that you would have real difficulty seeing what was happening anyway. In the case of the gravel bottomed lake though I would make my end tackle as subtle as possible And make my bait act as natural as the freebies by counterbalancing it. Also shortening the hooklink could help along with lengthening the hair to make sure you have a much greater degree of separation between the hook and bait.

 

To be honest, on the silty venue where even close in you are not gonna see much at all, I would experiment and try the same as above, but cos you cant see the carps reaction to anything, then i feel its gonna be trial and error.

 

Either way, I feel pulling out a rig that’s all whistles and bells rings here and swivels there is just gonna hinder your chances of a take. I wouldn’t be at all confident of doing something l;ike that. But thats just my opinion.

 

If I thought (or knew) the fish was 'picking' or 'mouthing' the bait then my first thoughts would be the opposite to yours Ant.

I would want the bait as close to the hook as possible with the hookpoint just clear of the lakebed or even upside down :?

My theory being that as soon as the carp touches the bait with its lip, it has a chance of being hooked - mega sharp hooks required I think.

Admitidly your not going to have many runs like this but it may get you that fish that you are targeting - if thats the way it feeds :?:?:

 

Could be a load of cobblers though :lol:

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