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A very sad day for Mark Simmonds


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Mark Simmonds has lost a 3rd fish farm to Otters.

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/4881240.Otters_eat___30_000_of_carp_at_fishery/

 

This is a tragedy for the man & i really feel for him, but it does beg the question....

 

Having lost one fish farm (let alone two) why wasn't more done to protect his lake? Or is Otter proof fencing not Otter proof? :?

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That's dire.

 

I was under the impression that a "proper" otter fence had to extend underground by some way - that's what I heard anyway.

 

Such things should be unnecessary - if the idiots who released the otters realised the effect they are having on the ecosystem. In the days otters were prevelant, you'd have the odd one on a stretch of river - not a dozen of them! And the stretches they lived in had an abundance of small fish for them to feed on. They've dessimated the barbel stocks in stretches of river and are now causing chaos in other fisheries - carp in particular. The stupid thing is that the fishery owners are powerless to do anything about it and the government don't give a monkey's about the idiots who continue to release them. A great example of where mis-informed do-gooders are casuing chaos in the food chain!

 

I know what I'd be doing if I owned a fishery and there were otters in the area.

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“In situations where fish losses to otters are particularly high, or are likely to be a serious problem, steps should be taken to prevent otters gaining access to the fish, while still allowing otters to travel freely along watercourses.’’

 

above quote from E.A regarding this situation, is that not a right contradiction :roll::roll:

lets hope mr simmonds gets some help from the gov to rebuild his enterprise, and finds an acceptable way to keep the otters away from his stock without falling foul of the law, as otters are highly protected

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That'd help Mark but that's simply not enough Jules. Unless the authorities take some action to sort out the otter situation, more and more rivers and lakes will be dessimated of their fish stocks - and we all know what that means ultimately.

 

Those "bodies" that represent fishing need to develop some back-bone and start to represent our sport properly - sitting in meetings and "doing research" doesn't cut it for me - proper action is needed as the event reported here is becoming more and more commonplace - and it won't get better if we all sit on our backsides.

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About the fences?? can otters go underground ??

 

Yes, they burrow in the same way rabbits do. I think the fencing gets dug down to about 2 metres below the surface.

Standard otter fences are only dug in 15cm, or layed flat and pinned down on the outward side 15cm.

The trouble with standard otter fences is that if hungry otters will rip through the netting, they can climb over it etc etc.

Because of the above my fences are electric and even they are not 100%.

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This is going to rattle a few cages but, in my opinion, his fish directly represent the increase in "artifical" carp fishing. So, personally, I couldn't care less.

 

The less of them the better in my book. Hopefully the instant gloryhunters will depart with these fish.

 

That's terrible jonezy not every one likes simmos fair enough but to come out with that rubbish is unbelievable the fish he breeds dont all grow to massive weights he is losing his buisness which produces ENGLISH fish love um or hate them there english got to be better than importing them

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The big problem with re-introducing a creature such as the otter is that now they are top of the food chain and have no real predators (not even man as they are protected). The same sort of thing will happen if they re-introduce wolves into Scotland (although they do not really eat fish!).

When they start these schemes the people responsible need to think more carefully about all of the effects and not just the immediately obvious ones.

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About the fences?? can otters go underground ??

 

Yes, they burrow in the same way rabbits do. I think the fencing gets dug down to about 2 metres below the surface.

 

Standard otter fences are only dug in 15cm, or layed flat and pinned down on the outward side 15cm.

The trouble with standard otter fences is that if hungry otters will rip through the netting, they can climb over it etc etc.

Because of the above my fences are electric and even they are not 100%.

 

Only 15cm? I'm quite shocked at that, it doesn't seem much of a deterent.

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About the fences?? can otters go underground ??

 

Yes, they burrow in the same way rabbits do. I think the fencing gets dug down to about 2 metres below the surface.

 

Standard otter fences are only dug in 15cm, or layed flat and pinned down on the outward side 15cm.

The trouble with standard otter fences is that if hungry otters will rip through the netting, they can climb over it etc etc.

Because of the above my fences are electric and even they are not 100%.

 

Only 15cm? I'm quite shocked at that, it doesn't seem much of a deterent.

 

Hi if you look hard enough you can find plans on the net for otter fences, EA, ECHO,AT etc.

They are all based on fences either put up by the National parks in the lakes or tests done by the otter trust.

The basically state that the fence should be buried or laid flat on the outside edge of the fence for 15-20cm and should be 90cm high.

The netting should be on the outside of the posts.

Now fences constructed like this do act as a deterrent especially if the top edge is left to hang outwards, but they do not work with determined otters.

Most people construct fences along these lines from rabbit netting because of cost etc.

However as already stated otters can and do rip holes in the netting and in extensive tests they chewed though all sorts of netting but failed on 1.5mm weldmesh with a 2" square.

Incidentally Otters are not good diggers [hence the reason for the EA and otter trust creating artificial holts] what they are very good at is getting their nose under the leading edge of a wire fence and lifting it with brute force, hence the need to bury or lay.

They are capable climbers and can go over ridged fences easily. The best fences are a mix of the above with two electric wires one 15cm in front of the fence and 10cm above ground and the other 10cm in front and at the same height as the fence.

Hopefully this is how my fencing will be by this time next year.

Just as a matter of interest to some, my knowledge comes from being both sides of the fence: keeping otters away from my fish and trying to stop my pet otters escaping!

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That's terrible jonezy not every one likes simmos fair enough but to come out with that rubbish is unbelievable the fish he breeds dont all grow to massive weights he is losing his buisness which produces ENGLISH fish love um or hate them there english got to be better than importing them

 

A./ How can an opinion be deemed as rubbish?

B./ Who said anything about them not being english?

 

Fair enough, it is better than importing carp, which could possibly be ridden with diseases, but these fish symbolise to me what is wrong with carp fishing. They grow fast, die young with one sole purpose, money.

 

Fair play to Mr.Simmonds for finding a niche in the market though, despite how damaging it is.

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That's terrible jonezy not every one likes simmos fair enough but to come out with that rubbish is unbelievable the fish he breeds dont all grow to massive weights he is losing his buisness which produces ENGLISH fish love um or hate them there english got to be better than importing them

 

A./ How can an opinion be deemed as rubbish?

B./ Who said anything about them not being english?

 

Fair enough, it is better than importing carp, which could possibly be ridden with diseases, but these fish symbolise to me what is wrong with carp fishing. They grow fast, die young with one sole purpose, money.

 

Fair play to Mr.Simmonds for finding a niche in the market though, despite how damaging it is.

 

Got to say jonezy I with you on this one. although I do feel a little sympathy for Mr Simmonds for the loss of business but he must have made plenty of dough, off the back of greedy fishery owners.

 

The article states 105 fish either dead, dieing or missing. So how many of each is it?

Got to admit something don't quite seem to add up in my book. I smell a bit of a rat, but would be happy to be proved wrong.

 

Also can anybody explain to me how he has lost 105 fish before he noticed?

How long would this take a couple of otters?

I assume this must have taken more than a night or two so why was it not noticed?

I have heard or 5 or 6 fishing being killed over a couple of nights but never a number as high as this.

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Also can anybody explain to me how he has lost 105 fish before he noticed?

How long would this take a couple of otters?

I assume this must have taken more than a night or two so why was it not noticed?

I have heard or 5 or 6 fishing being killed over a couple of nights but never a number as high as this.

 

I hope I can, they a family of otters that is can quite easily wipe out that many fish in a few days.

Somewhere on this forum[creating a carp lake] I wrote about this very subject, but I will repeat it.

I went on holiday for Christmas and when I got back home I went round my lakes for a walk with my Brother.

My brother noticed some scales and asked where they were from, we started looking closely and found more and a dead fish or two, the end result was we netted the waters to descover all the fish were dead, dieing or missing.

 

That brings me to another thing in your post.

Otters do not kill carp to eat only, they also kill for fun- they kill to teach youngsters how to kill etc.

If you disturb a killing spree you often find the following: dead fish in the water and on the bank, fish missing altogether and fish dyeing.

Now the otters have a nasty habit of catching carp [or any other big fish] and biting away at its mouth etc. whilst its in the water and still alive.

I have a theory that this is to partially immobilize the fish so the young can play with it [wildcats do the same with rabbits]

Adult otters that are hungry simply catch and kill the first carp they come too drag it away and eat it or part of it.

Normally if an adult kills a fish for food and you find it will have rips in its skin like small triangular tears and it will be eaten behind its gills and possibly along its dorsal muscle.

If you find fish killed by a family group you will find fish with parts of the mouth and nose area eaten away/bitten through, tears and bits missing from the caudal fin and the same damage as above.

 

I am afraid most people do not realize how big or strong an otter is and the ones I have dealt with are far bigger that the fury brigade would have us believe.

They kill big domestic free-range geese easily; the same geese see foxes away! They certainly have no problems with big semi comatose carp in the middle of winter.

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I guess if I was going to leave £30,000 in £10 pound notes in a field I think I would take quite a bit of care to make sure that no-one could steal it.

Why would you leave £30,000 worth of fish in a pond that was virtually unprotected when you had already had two hits on other ponds from otters? :?::?::?:

once is a huge shame, twice is careless, 3 times is just a bit thick (and to the cost of the poor fish)- pigeons learn faster.

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That is a horrible picture

 

It is. I think the 'trophy shot' way hes holding the fish is dreadful, and he's smiling! Whats he so happy about :?

 

he must have made plenty of dough, off the back of greedy fishery owners.

 

He doesnt need to make any dough, his family's rich and have been for years.

His old fella is/was (is Norman still with us?) a lovely bloke, a very rich lovely bloke! :lol:

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I guess if I was going to leave £30,000 in £10 pound notes in a field I think I would take quite a bit of care to make sure that no-one could steal it.

Why would you leave £30,000 worth of fish in a pond that was virtually unprotected when you had already had two hits on other ponds from otters? :?::?::?:

once is a huge shame, twice is careless, 3 times is just a bit thick (and to the cost of the poor fish)- pigeons learn faster.

 

Agree, entirely.

 

Ian

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